Quote: Long before you were here, I had a series of posts on the fact that Nations sometimes get a bit too technical about resolutions. My thought was to see some of them for what they are; an effort to fix something that doesn't fully exist in RL. So sometimes I'll vote illogically in a case where the writing may be bad but the thought or point of the resolution I agree with.[/quote]
Well, I can only disagree. Thought isn't enough: and at the same time, crafting a good, sensible, practical resolution doesn't require excessive technicality. I'd thought this region would appreciate that: you have a master of that among you. Mik's resolutions have often been quite simple, but every effective. With no offence intended to him, I think his most technical was his least well received: Mitigation of Large Reservoirs. But several others, such as Freedom of Assembly or Needle Sharing Prevention, didn't resort to annoying legalism, and had a good simple point in mind, but also worked.
That's not too much to ask of a resolution. If you want the thought to be there, fine: post a nice message on the forum, or send a greeting card or something. If you want to write a resolution, you have to make some consideration of effect.
Quote: Now in this case there's argueably another resolution already in place that backs it up and that's good. You make great points and mine are completely uncompelling. That being said, I'm stating my stance and not trying to convince anyone else or argue with your excellent points. I have my reasons and a disrespectful rant from you won't make me change my mind.[/quote]
Right, but I am trying to convince anyone else, or else I wouldn't be posting. I can guarantee you the Anticapitalist Alliance will vote against this. There'll be some stupid comments, too. I won't waste my time arguing with my ACA puppet, though, because I don't think it'll make any measurable impact. In the IDU, however, I'd expected rational debate to find a home.
If you don't want any discussion on proposals you disagree with, you're welcome to tell me to shut up. If you don't want any response to comments you make...why make them in the first place?
Quote: With regard to other regions I have my beliefs and continue to question the motives of those bent on repealing so many resolutions.[/quote]
Well this is the only repeal David6 has got to quorum, so 'many' would be 'one' in this case, but I take the point: wild and spurious slurs against the character of people you don't know do make a pretty compelling case.
Besides, why does it matter? Let's say there is some Machiavellian plot to destroy the UN or some similarly fucktarded scenario. Do we really care, so long as the resolutions that these scheming geniuses produce aren't unduly injurious? You seem to admit that this repeal doesn't cause any harm. So it's hardly a sop to the dark malevolent forces of anti-UN destruction to vote for it: beats them at their own game, in fact, by making them work within the system.
Quote: Politics aside I personally believe it is easier to criticize than create and so it is a weak attempt to put initiatives through the UN vote process without actually having to create something.[/quote]
I certainly hope too much work didn't go into drafting Resolution #54, because it's shit, and I'd hate to think anyone wasted their time on such drivel. But I take the point that it is maybe easier to write a repeal than a resolution: in fact, this plays to me. I'll come back to this.
Quote: (especially considering the way you carved up my post even including a nice little rant directed at our Delegate)[/quote]
It wasn't a rant. It was an argument. Please tell me this place hasn't grown into such a cobwebbed circle jerk the two have become conflated?
Quote: so I challenge you to look at every repealed resolution and point out the new and improved resolution that has taken its place.[/quote]
Firstly, what makes you think every repeal has to be followed by a replacement? This one certainly won't be, assuming it passes (which is unlikely if the average UN voter subjects it to such rational and logical scrutiny as being displayed here). When I throw out my rubbish, I don't immediately go and get more empty packets and cans to litter up my room. Sometimes a repeal is just a repeal.
Secondly, I can't improve much on Kenny's list for those where replacements have been promised, and then produced.
Thirdly, remember what you said about resolutions taking more than repeals? Yeah. So be patient. Some of the repeals - Due Process is a good example - may not have yielded replacements yet, but that doesn't mean they're not being drafted. They just take time, whereas any old hack can churn out a repeal, right? Unfathomably arrogant and condescending as that assessment may be, it would seem to support the idea that sometimes a replacement may take a bit of time.
Quote: In the instances where there hasn't been one, my IC contention is that poor guidance is now replaced by no guidance, which to me is sad, especially in a place where we're supposed to have more respect for each other than in RL.[/quote]
In some cases, I would say a bad law is worse than no law: I would bear in mind Right to Divorce on this. And you're right: we should have more respect, and trust that member nations will be ok for five minutes without Mother UN holding their hand. Patience is a pretty universal virtue.
Quote: And while we're on the subject of respect, I don't know Hersfold but I figure if he's someone GS knows, we should at least respect another player and not reduce the debate to judgements and name calling.[/quote]
Don't worry, he's a tool.
But clearly, you missed my point. So I'll rephrase. hersfold isn't a prick or a tool: he's a divinely inspired, wonderful human being. Witty, charming, brilliant, mature, not a whining schoolkid who gets his panties in a wad when someone suggests the UN has better things to do than mandate developing countries spend their money on clarinet lessons, modest, competent, rational. And when we made love, it was the most intense physical experience of my life: I think I saw God.
Better?
Now, his resolution still stinks.
Quote: In response to your comment on repeals being the majority will, everyone here knows that you can manipulate the majority through the writing on a repeal and also through the lie that a better replacement is in progress.[/quote]
So why can't you manipulate the majority in a resolution!? There is nothing inherent to a repeal - certainly nothing you've pointed out - that makes it more prone to manipulation than a substantive proposal. The final clause of UN Counterterrorism Initiative was excessively smugly lauded as a sop to the fluffies, the blocking clause of UN Educational Aid Act was put between the resolution's two biggest ones to distract attention, and hersfold's own resolution - which I've now resigned myself to the fact we're never going to discuss - actually funds only his own schools, and no other nations'. (Ok, so that one may not have been deliberate, but I'm not sure anyone will have stayed with me by this point.)
Quote: Again, I fully admitted that I'm being illogical. Maybe that's what vexes you so much???[/quote]
No. What vexes me is that you seem to think admitting to being illogical gives you a free pass.
"Did you just hit that black man?"
"It's ok, I was just being violently racist."
"Oh, fine."
Quote: In the case of the Region, the majority will has spoken.[/quote]
1. No, it hasn't. 5 people have spoken; this region has over 60 members.
2. So?
3. If your point is that because I'm in the minority, I should shut up, then I just don't know what's going on.
4. You just said that the majority could be manipulated.
Quote: What's going on here is the same as what happens in RL. There are external friendships at stake. There are internal friendships at stake.[/quote]
The only people I would ever wish to be friends with are those with whom I share a bond of mutual respect sufficient to withstand disagreeing over a resolution in an online game.
Quote: We want to try to support each other as much as possible. Sometimes that means picking your battles. Is this repeal that important to you?[/quote]
Yes, it is. If we don't pass this, it will send up a signal that the UN has learned nothing and remains a den of craven, crass stupidity.
Quote: I would suggest that approaching it as an influencer in addition to using your intellect would have gotten you further. Something about honey VS. vinegar?[/quote]
In English?
Quote: I look forward to healthy debate on Resolutions, not repeals.[/quote]
So your stance would be that if I wrote a resolution banning breathing, we should all just pinch our noses and turn them up at a repeal? Repealing a bad law is a perfectly natural function of a legislative body.
Quote: And yes, I do leave open the possibility that I will vote for a repeal (there I go again being hypocritical) but for now, I'd like to see some replacement resolutions[/quote]
As pointed out, there have already been about 20. Otherwise, why don't you write one? Or at least start a thread to collect ideas for one. There are, so far as I can see, only about two or three resolutions still needing replacement: I know at least one of them is being worked on right now. You're massively overreacting.
Quote: before I go turning the current group of resolutions into swiss cheese.[/quote]
That's something of an overstatement. There are over 120 extant resolutions. There's been about 35 repeals.
Quote: Repeal World Heritage List (#37) - I was in favor of the repeal along with the IDU but this is where I was justifiably irritated due to the mention of, "Seeking and opportunity to pass more effective legialation in replacement", which was never intended and therefore soured me to the process of repeal without simultaneous replacement. So as a protest, I have been voting against repeals since.[/quote]
Ok, but here's the thing. Stolidia and I both voted against that repeal with our UN nations, and both posted annoyed messages about it. At the time, my UN nation was delegate of the region you so enjoy impugning, and of the nation that submitted the repeal. Voting against my own region's repeal caused some to criticise me, and there were some heated arguments. I stood by it, because I felt dishonest arguments were unnecessary.
But now I've grown up and moved on, because I'm not eight fucking years old. You don't see Stolidia voting against all repeals, but God knows they were annoyed at the time. Legislation should be judged on its merits, not on any unfortunate but irrelevant antecedents to it.
Quote: Repeal Due Process (#27) - Both I and the Region were against. This further irritated me due to the inclusion of, "Nations should have the opportunity to select the method of bringing criminal charges." Aren't we trying to create a utopian community here?[/quote]
A utopian community is one that can't exist. I think you mean a good community, in which case yes, we are. Forcing Grand Jury doesn't accomplish that.
Quote: I mean if we're saying people shouldn't get persecuted for their sexual orientation and there should be no slavery or servitude in this world, then shouldn't we also provide guidance as to how someone ACCUSED of a crime is treated?[/quote]
Yeah, which is probably why a replacement is being drafted. Oops, upset the apple cart of judgmentalism there.
Quote: As you know, there has not been a replacement for #27[/quote]
There's one being drafted. We're back to: resolutions take time to draft. You said so yourself.
Quote: nor a further clarification of the intention of #37.[/quote]
No, there hasn't. Someone should get on that.
Quote: Basically, it comes down to this; if you have any political leaning, which I think we've had a history of here in the IDU, then you sometimes do things based on principle.[/quote]
Agreed. My principles are:
- don't judge a resolution by its title
- don't be afraid to strike out bad resolution
- redundancy causes inefficiency and confusion
- enough with the damn UN committees, and getting rid of an unnecessary one can't hurt
Check, check, check and check.
Quote: Our leanings have always been liberal, utopian, and even socialist in many cases. If a nation doesn't feel the same way, that is fine. Just don't expect to find identical opinions on the majority of issues.[/quote]
Funny, when I moved here I could have sworn I read something about 'democratic'.
Quote: You don't have to understand it. You don't even have to accept it. Regardless, it will continue to be my opinion.[/quote]
What does this even mean?
