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PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Printable Version

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PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Grosseschnauzer - 01-18-2007

Quote: Repeal "UN Educational Committee"

A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution

Category: Repeal

Resolution: #54

Proposed by: David6

Description: UN Resolution #54: UN Educational Committee (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Strong) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: The United Nations,

Strongly identifying with the principles of promoting quality in education espoused in UN Resolution #54, "UN Educational Committee",

Taking note of the passage of UN Resolution #171, "UN Educational Aid Act", and specifically its creation of a UN Educational Advancement Fund,

Recognizing that while committees can serve useful functions, assigning two to oversight of UN educational projects is not only excessive, bureaucratic and wasteful, but further poses the risk of creating confusion and inefficiency,

Believing the UNEAF to be a generally better model than the UNEC, given the latter's powers are poorly delineated, and no provision is made for funding of its projects,

Realizing that UNEC's functions are more than sufficiently performed by UNEAF,

Thereby considering that UNEC has been relegated to the status of another useless committee,

Wishing to clarify the UN's objectives, increase its efficiency and streamline its operations, through the elimination of committees that serve no purpose other than to drain member resources,

Repeals "UN Educational Committee".

Authored by the members of ACCEL

Voting Ends: Mon Jan 29 2007[/quote]

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Eisophca - 01-18-2007

Nay. Pointless repeal.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Gnejs - 01-18-2007

we say nay

Linda Anaris
UN-Office
GPRG

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Grosseschnauzer - 01-18-2007

This would be an insult to a player in The North Pacific who is well thought of by many of us (Hersfold sponsored the original).

I don't plan to vote for repeal, I feel that strongly about it.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-18-2007

FOR. The original is silly and redundant.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Yeldan IDU Territory - 01-18-2007

MEH. I'll probably be abstaining.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Federation of Disjunction - 01-19-2007

I'm against all repeals at this point. In the words of Dr David Banner, "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Antrium - 01-19-2007

AGAINST.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Gnejs - 01-19-2007

Quote: "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."[/quote]

I can totally see you going green and mad if this passes Big Grin

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-19-2007

Why is there such objection to this? The original resolution is not only abject crap, but entirely redundant. People complain about the UN setting up endless committees: we're not allowed to get rid of them? And why the blanket opposition to repeals? Don't you think removing bad laws and waste is a good idea?

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Federation of Disjunction - 01-19-2007

Quod, you are totally right and being logical. (I like that about you BTW) I like logic too but in this case I'm being completely emotional.

Before you were here or right when you arrived, there was a mass of repeals and some of them were for good reasons. However they almost always claimed that they had a better resolution in development but never did. I came to find out that some of the groups sponsoring repeals were actually just trying to remove as much UN influence as possible from our NS world. Since I believe in the NSUN, I felt offended and frustrated by this. my thought was, if they don't want to be subject to the rules of the UN, then resign. What these groups want are all the benefits of UN membership but they don't want to be subject to the majority will.

In this case, if it is repealed then so be it because I do agree that it is not as good as it could be but I won't contribute my vote to that end because I've made the decision that a poorly written resolution is better than no resolution at all. Illogical, but true for me.

Now, pardon me while I turn green and my shirt rips off and my pants split too but somehow the part around my waist stays on... ARRRG!

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Grosseschnauzer - 01-20-2007

Quod, for those of us who hav been around longer, such as me and Mik, we've known Hersfold for a long time, and he is a friend of the IDU,

I' also sent a message to Hersfold yesterday, and alerted him to the repeal effort.
He'wasn't aware of it, but he's alerted now to the proposed repeal.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-20-2007

FoD Before you were here or right when you arrived, there was a mass of repeals and some of them were for good reasons. However they almost always claimed that they had a better resolution in development but never did.[/quote]
One did. The repeal of World heritage List. The others didn't make such claim; and in the case of Repeal "Sexual Freedom", there was a replacement written. So this whole overreaction is based on one repeal. Just so we're clear on that.
Quote: I came to find out that some of the groups sponsoring repeals were actually just trying to remove as much UN influence as possible from our NS world.[/quote]
Not true. That group was seeking any means to strike out one of the most damaging resolutions the UN has ever passed. I didn't agree with the tactic but I can understand why they thought people might not realize just how catastrophic the resolution potentially was, given the spectacular failure of this region, supposedly home to more thoughtful and considered debates, to do so.

I can understand your annoyance at that repeal - I was annoyed at it, to the point I voted against it and then copped several rounds of shit for doing so. But please don't write off all repeals on the basis of it (well, maybe not quite all); and please don't slander the intentions of a region that have contributed more resolutions to the UN than any other, except yours. They don't want to 'remove as much UN influence as possible': they wanted to remove a resolution that allowed any nation to list any site, of zero environmental significance, in any other nation, and prohibit all economic activity within it. Maybe we could all do with a touch of perspective.
Quote: Since I believe in the NSUN, I felt offended and frustrated by this. my thought was, if they don't want to be subject to the rules of the UN, then resign. What these groups want are all the benefits of UN membership but they don't want to be subject to the majority will.[/quote]
Yeah, here's the thing. Repeals require more votes for than against to pass. By passing a repeal, they were part of the majority will.

And there was no benefit to UN membership associated with World heritage List, only crippling detriment.
Quote: In this case, if it is repealed then so be it because I do agree that it is not as good as it could be but I won't contribute my vote to that end because I've made the decision that a poorly written resolution is better than no resolution at all.[/quote]
But it's not no resolution at all! We already have one - UN Educational Aid Act. If we repeal this, we still have a resolution on an educational committee.
Grosseschnauzer Quod, for those of us who hav been around longer, such as me and Mik, we've known Hersfold for a long time, and he is a friend of the IDU,[/quote]
I know hersfold. he's a a jumped up, hypersensitive, self-important prick with zero rational judgement and less capacity for criticism. But I don't care: I'll judge his resolutions by their merits, not the fact they're by him.

This being exactly my point. Resolutions should be judged on their text: being by a nice guy doesn't guarantee their quality; having the word 'repeal' in the title doesn't vouch against it. Nobody has raised any objection to a single line of this repeal. Instead, this region that supposedly prides itself on contributing to the UN constructively and productively is running and hiding because their friend wrote the resolution. Please. We have an opportunity to strike out an utterly worthless resolution, remove a useless committee, and make a statement that resolutions should be clear in meaning and action, and not ridiculous sub-adolescent slurry. Why are we so afraid of having the UN doing something like that?

Presumably because your pal is simultaneously a wonderful, reasonable individual good relations with whom is of significant import, and a whiny brat who'll fly off the handle at his precious resolution having some nasty words said about it. With friends like these...

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Gnejs - 01-20-2007

Quintessence of Dust: I do not know you, neither do I pretend to. You do bring up several valuable points in your post, but not one of them is brought up in a friendly tone. Let me just stop here and say that I am not speaking for an entire region, just myself. I supported your "Extraordinary Rendition" proposal (which was great), and followed the debate in the UN forum, and I got the same feeling there (not unlike many other UN-debates I have observed). Have you ever considered maybe slowing down a little? Perhaps just explain your thoughts and objections in a somewhat calmer matter?

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-20-2007

I'm perfectly calm. Were I not calm, I wouldn't be sitting at a keyboard typing. I'm annoyed, sure, but I'm just calmly annoyed.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Gnejs - 01-20-2007

Quote: I'm perfectly calm. Were I not calm, I wouldn't be sitting at a keyboard typing. I'm annoyed, sure, but I'm just calmly annoyed. [/quote]

Calm? Very nice.. Then we will have no problem continuing this. BTW, I enjoyed the expresion "Calmly Annoyed".. Very British.

In your own words, "Just so we're clear on that", I am not questioning your stance on this particular proposal. I am in fact questioning the manner in which you address your fellow member nations. For example, Grosseschnauzer clearly said the orginal author was a friend of his.. Being a friend of an old time member of the IDU, shold this guarantee support or aproval of a resolution? No, of course not. You vote according to your beliefs. The only thing I ask from you, and all other members f the IDU is showing respect for all views and beliefs, contrary your own.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Yeldan IDU Territory - 01-20-2007

Putting aside the tone of his argument and looking only at its content, I have to admit that Quod has offered some compelling reasons to vote for the repeal. So far, the arguments against have been less than convincing.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-20-2007

Alright, Jeez, I apologise for my tone. Now can we please start talking about the text of the resolutions in question?

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - boricuastan - 01-20-2007

For reference, the resolution to be repealed:

Quote: UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #54

UN Educational Committee
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.

Category: Human Rights
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Hersfold

Description: NOTICING, that the condition of many educational facilities worldwide lack the ability to properly teach thier children, in that:

Classrooms are falling into disrepair;
Teachers are unable to properly educate their students due to poor training:
And, schools do not have sufficent funds to purchase better equipment to replace old, broken and/or out-of-date materials;

SEEING that a student's mental welfare and self-esteem can be greatly improved through extra-curricular activities, which many schools can not afford or do not fund sufficently;

FINDING that the food served in many school cafeterias is not healthy, and tastes revolting besides;

SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves;

HEARING that many countries cut the budget for education before anything else to aid funding for other programs;

HAVING PASSED the resolution "Free Education" on August 19th of the year 2003;

AND REALIZING that today's children are tommorrow's future, and without proper education of these children, our future will fail;

THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.

Votes For: 11,237
Votes Against: 7,167

Implemented: Fri Apr 9 2004[/quote]
And the resolution which has already "replaced" it:

Quote: UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #171

UN Educational Aid Act
A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts.

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Educational
Proposed by: Gruenberg

Description: The United Nations,

Firmly convinced that a high quality of education is worth securing for all people,

Acknowledging that some nations, especially those with developing economies or poor infrastructure, or these experiencing problems of internal stability, may experience understandable difficulties in providing such services,

Determined to help all people achieve access to education, and to work with, rather than against, nations and institutions encountering particular problems in this regard:

1. Proclaims it the duty of nations to ensure opportunities for education and training are reasonably accessible for all their nationals, and especially for children and young adults;

2. Declares its support for all projects aimed at increasing the availability of good, free or affordable educational services;

3. Condemns all forms of unfair and unreasonable discrimination with national educational systems, and motions for effective remedies to such;

4. Promotes schemes such as distance learning courses, part time adult education universities, and opportunities for deferred study, to ensure that those with jobs, young children or other responsibilities are able to benefit from the opportunities of education;

5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
- solicit voluntary donations from national governments, charitable and other organizations, and individuals;
- organize international conferences on educational methods, relevant technologies, academic subjects, and any other relevant topics;
- act as a point of liaison for any international academic or educational projects seeking assistance in the acquisition of funding, resources or membership;
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;

6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;

7. Encourages nations to ensure a sustainable supply of good teachers, educators, instructors and other educational professionals, through:
- providing small bursaries and grants to those seeking to train as educational professionals;
- ensuring reasonable pay and benefits for those working in the public education sector;
- engaging in the creation of opportunities for those in other industries to retrain and enter the educational profession;
- rigorously checking such applicants for history of violent or sexual abuse, especially involving children, and prevent any applicants who are considered a significant risk to children from obtaining teaching posts;

8. Also recognises that education is not solely an institutional prerogative, and as such requests that nations respect the importance of family and community education programs and teaching systems, formal or otherwise.

Votes For: 11,250
Votes Against: 2,307

Implemented: Sun Aug 20 2006[/quote]
By the by: I see nothing wrong with Quod's arguments (the only valid ones thus far seen in this thread, I might add), his "tone," or anything else. He was simply pointing out that the original resolution fails on its merits, and that personal regard for its sponsor is no reason not to repeal it. Detracting from these points by accusing their author of violating some arbitrary standard for civility contributes nothing to this discussion. As it stands, UNR #54 is flawed, poorly justified, and now, thanks to UNR #171, wholly redundant and unnecessary. I'd vote for this repeal if my IDU nation was in the UN, but it's not.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Eisophca - 01-20-2007

The repeal presents no compelling reason to repeal the resolution. The UNEAF is not funded without voluntary international donations, the UNEC is, out of the gargantuan UN budget. I believe the two committees can co-exist and work with each other, since, according to the UN rules, they are staffed by beings that spring up for the sole purpose of serving them, which wouild imply that they don't need to be paid.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-20-2007

Quote: The UNEAF is not funded without voluntary international donations, the UNEC is, out of the gargantuan UN budget.[/quote]
No, that would be making things up. The UN has no budget
Quote: I believe the two committees can co-exist and work with each other, since,[/quote]
Well I, uh, don't. This would be easier to resolve if Resolution #54 were remotely clear on what UNEC's responsibilities actually were.
Quote: according to the UN rules, they are staffed by beings that spring up for the sole purpose of serving them, which wouild imply that they don't need to be paid.[/quote]
No, it really wouldn't. Which is largely irrelevant, given one of the stated aims of UNEC is to remedy underfunding of public education, and I'm guessing that would need some funds, no? (Not that it makes a vast difference, given UNEC isn't really clear on how it would use those funds.)

Besides, why do we need to keep UNEC? It does one of the following:
- nothing
- exactly what UNEAF does
- some other mystical and unannounced function that it omits to actually mention, which strikes me as rather dangerous given the field.

Do any of these strike you as valuable properties to be retained?

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Yeldan IDU Territory - 01-20-2007

Quintessence of DustJan 20 2007, 08:53 AMAlright, Jeez, I apologise for my tone. Now can we please start talking about the text of the resolutions in question?[/quote]
I wasn't suggesting that you apologise, but merely that we should look at what you're saying, rather than how you were saying it. Your arguments make sense. So far, the against arguments don't.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Eisophca - 01-20-2007

Of course the UN has a budget. How is the UN building paid for? How is the UN Recycling Commission funded? What about the UN Patent Registry? Where does it get the money to send out telegrams to 30,000 nations every time a resolution passes?

Quote: Well I, uh, don't. This would be easier to resolve if Resolution #54 were remotely clear on what UNEC's responsibilities actually were.[/quote]

To fund educational systems? UNEAF's power to do that is limited by its restriction to donations, which would be given anyway. UNEC is better for funding, while UNEAF is more of a coordination committee.

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Quintessence of Dust - 01-21-2007

Quote: Of course the UN has a budget.[/quote]
No, that would again be a fabrication on your part.
Quote: How is the UN building paid for?[/quote]
During the debate on Sophista's UN Funding Act, Knootoss announced they would pay the UN Building's rent in exchange for the proposal not being submitted.
Quote: How is the UN Recycling Commission funded?[/quote]
It's a website. If you're really worried, I'll dig into my petty cash allowance, but I'm guessing it could be hosted by a Universal Library Coalition server otherwise.
Quote: What about the UN Patent Registry?[/quote]
Employing an office staff and buying some databases is a rather different matter of funding to revamping 30,000 public education systems. Besides, pointing out failures of other resolutions to make provisions for funding doesn't atone for this one's. The projects UNEC is talking about require a lorra lorra dorra.
Quote: To fund educational systems? UNEAF's power to do that is limited by its restriction to donations, which would be given anyway. UNEC is better for funding, while UNEAF is more of a coordination committee.[/quote]
Well, given one of UNEAF's explicit powers is coordination, I'm not sure where you've pulled that assessment from (maybe the clue's in the word). UNEAF can do funding just fine: besides, if this magical invisible budget does exist, there's nothing in the UNEAA to stop it using it either. So either:
- the UNEC has no money, or
- the UNEC and UNEAF both have money.

Now, once again, why bother keeping on the sack of shit?

PASSED: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" - Eisophca - 01-21-2007

No, that would actually be common sense on my part. All organizations need a budget to function. In 3500 characters for resolutions, we have to allow for some reasonable extrapolation.

Quote: there's nothing in the UNEAA to stop it using it either.[/quote]

If it's explicitly stated that it's getting voluntary donations, doesn't that rather imply that it's not getting involuntary donations? When the funding method is stated, no extrapolation is necessary.