[Grosseschnauzer]

Quote: Repeal "Due Process"

A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution

Category: Repeal

Resolution: #27

Proposed by: Karmicaria

Description: UN Resolution #27: Due Process (Category: The Furtherment of Democracy; Strength: Strong) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: The United Nations,

AWARE of the widely varied judicial systems within member nations;

RECOGNIZING that there are many viable alternatives to the grand jury system;

NOT CONVINCED that this particular judicial system is inherently more fair, or more likely to produce correct verdicts, than other viable systems;

BELIEVING that nations should have the opportunity to select the method of bringing criminal charges which best suits their cultures and legal systems;

DISMAYED that if significant new evidence is acquired acquired after the initial trial, no retrial would be possible;

THEREFORE repeals UNR#27 "Due Process"

Voting Ends: Sat Dec 9 2006[/quote]

[Grosseschnauzer]

See what I mean? This repeal everything trend is over-the-top!

[Federation of Disjunction]

UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #27
Due Process

A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.


Category: The Furtherment of Democracy


Strength: Strong


Proposed by: The global market

Description: No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limbo, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himsefl, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Votes For: 9,027
Votes Against: 4,677

Implemented: Wed Aug 13 2003

Other than being written at a time when resolutions were a bit more simplistic, I don't see anything wrong with this resolution. If someone wants to gaurantee the right to an appeal, then write that resolution. I was ready to begin to vote no on all repeals and this one makes it easy for me.

[Antrium]

Agreed with Disjunction.

It's a basic statement of rights that I think should be universally applied. I fail to see how a justice system could be entirely fair without these principles.

So I'm AGAINST.

[Eisophca]

The only thing is the Grand Jury thing, which isn't really necessary.

I'm really undecided on this one.

[boricuastan]

Federation of DisjunctionDec 1 2006, 12:53 PMUNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #27
Due Process

A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.


Category: The Furtherment of Democracy


Strength: Strong


Proposed by: The global market

Description: No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limbo, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himsefl, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Votes For: 9,027
Votes Against: 4,677

Implemented: Wed Aug 13 2003

Other than being written at a time when resolutions were a bit more simplistic, I don't see anything wrong with this resolution. If someone wants to gaurantee the right to an appeal, then write that resolution. I was ready to begin to vote no on all repeals and this one makes it easy for me.[/quote]
You do realize this is just the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, with the added bonus of protection from "limbo"? I'm not even Catholic, so I guess it doesn't apply to me. Nor do I fear having to testify against "mysefl."

The United Nations deserves its own Due Process convention, not a copy of the Bill of Rights from someone who can't master the simple task of transcribing 100 words.

FOR the repeal.*

* NOTE: My IDU puppet is not in the UN.

[Yeldan IDU Territory]

Hey, Kenny's here! *waves at Kenny*

I'm going to vote FOR the repeal, for the reasons brought up by Kenny and Ceo (botched copy of the Fifth Amendment and Grand Juries). The NSUN really does deserve its own unique legislation guaranteeing Due Process. Further, who are we to impose Grand Juries upon national judiciaries who may never have heard of such a thing?

[Thalatash]

AGAINST.

[Gnejs]

Im am going to go along with Disjunction and Antrium on this one. I'll vote AGAINST. Both Ceo, Franxico and Kenny raises a good point though.

[Antrium]

KennyDec 1 2006, 10:11 PM You do realize this is just the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, with the added bonus of protection from "limbo"? I'm not even Catholic, so I guess it doesn't apply to me. Nor do I fear having to testify against "mysefl." [/quote]
Personally, I don't care if there's one typo in it. It happens. Everyone knows what that means, it's not like he wrote "kjsjahsnnfn" or something completely unreadable.

Maybe that's just me, but that isn't changing my mind.

[boricuastan]

Antrium Personally, I don't care if there's one typo in it. It happens. Everyone knows what that means, it's not like he wrote "kjsjahsnnfn" or something completely unreadable.

Maybe that's just me, but that isn't changing my mind.[/quote]
Well, the typos (plural) were hardly the only point I was raising.

Franxico Hey, Kenny's here! *waves at Kenny*[/quote]
*defenestrates Franxico*

... Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Yeldan IDU Territory]

KennyDec 2 2006, 11:51 AM*defenestrates Franxico*
[/quote]
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*splat*

[Federation of Disjunction]

Hey Kenny: Maybe the NSUN deserves its own legislation but I no longer think that is the agenda here. I now think that the agenda is to strip the UN of all of its democratic, humanitarian, and fair resolutions in place of some weak resolutionless body, or even worse one with a conservative dominated agenda. If I want to see that all I need do is google Bush and Rove.

And BTW, non UN nations are encouraged to participate in the discussion but have no vote in the region's decision.

[Grosseschnauzer]

If you haven't indicated your vote, get it in before late Friday (EST). I will cast the region's vote at that time.

[Klouch]

abstain :argh:

[Stolidia]

I have two objections to the original resolution. The first concerns the imposition of the grand jury system. Why should the NSUN force member nations to use a system which, in the mythical world of RL, has been discarded by the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and most other nations? I'm not entirely sure of this, but I think I remember that the US is the only nation that still uses it. And even here, it's been discarded by many (most?) states. The grand jury system is plagued with problems. Why force-feed it to nations which might very well have developed a better system?

My second problem is with the double-jeopardy provision. Double jeopardy is intended to protect people from malicious prosecution. Fine. But there are other ways of doing this. And the double jeopardy rule permits gross miscarriages of justice. If you try a person for a crime and they're acquitted, that's it. No retrial, even if law enforcement subsequently develops absolutely probative evidence of guilt. So the criminal goes free and has a good laugh at the system.

To me, the resolution is a horrible example of taking the law of a single RL nation and assuming it's the only way to do things. I'm looking forward to its repeal.

[Mikitivity]

Federation of DisjunctionDec 1 2006, 12:53 PM UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #27
Due Process

A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.


Category: The Furtherment of Democracy


Strength: Strong


Proposed by: The global market

Description: No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limbo, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himsefl, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Votes For: 9,027
Votes Against: 4,677

Implemented: Wed Aug 13 2003

Other than being written at a time when resolutions were a bit more simplistic, I don't see anything wrong with this resolution. If someone wants to gaurantee the right to an appeal, then write that resolution. I was ready to begin to vote no on all repeals and this one makes it easy for me. [/quote]
I actually voted in favour of this repeal, but my government agrees with the vast majority of your position. With that in mind, Mikitivity agrees with enough of this repeal to vote in favour, but would like to state that should even a near identical resolution reach the floor with the exception of the reference to a Grand Jury, we'd vote in favour of that as well.

[Federation of Disjunction]

I respect the opinion of those who are in favor of the repeal. However, I question the motivation behind SOME of those who are in favor. It is my contention that those who are sponsoring most of these repeals do not wish for replacement resolutions to be passed in their place. I think they're hoping that no one will pick up the flag and run with it. I will also add that I will no longer support ANY repeal until such time as there is a replacement that will simultaniously replace the repealed resolution.

I say this because (dubious motivations aside) a repeal of a resolution that had even the remotest shred of benefit for member nations leaves the people who were protected by that resolution stripped of that protection until a better one is conceptualized and passed.

[Grosseschnauzer]

I'm trying to get some free time to address the underlying issue -- the failure of sponsors of many of the repeals that have passed to actually come forward with replacements.

This trend has to be challenged, and a campaign to deal with all of the promised, but undelivered replacements is probably the only way the failure to keep the promises of replacement proposals can be highlighted. Might it trigger something larger? Perhaps.

But as a member of the UN Old Guard, and of a region (this one) that believes in well-written UN resolutions, I feel we as a region need to call out the failure of others to keep their word..

[Federation of Disjunction]

Here Here! *pounds fist on the table*

[Eisophca]

Federation of DisjunctionDec 7 2006, 11:56 AM I will also add that I will no longer support ANY repeal until such time as there is a replacement that will simultaniously replace the repealed resolution. [/quote]
It's not going to happen any time in the forseeable future I'm afraid.

[Gnejs]

Quote: It's not going to happen any time in the forseeable future I'm afraid. [/quote]

have faith..

[Thalatash]

GnejsDec 8 2006, 08:08 AM Quote: It's not going to happen any time in the forseeable future I'm afraid. [/quote]

have faith.. [/quote]
Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel.

[Gnejs]

Quote: but tie up your camel. [/quote]

good advice!

[Grosseschnauzer]

Quote: FOR Repeal    [ 3 ]    [27.27%]
AGAINST Repeal  [ 6 ]  [54.55%]
ABSTAIN  [ 2 ]  [18.18%]
Total Votes: 11[/quote]

With the vote 3-6-2, the NAYs have it. The vote will be cast against the proposal.