[Love and esterel]

Greetings IDU,

Forgottenlands and myself wrote a new draft proposal: ?Right to Divorce?.

As usual, i'm interested by the comments of your region.
Thanks

Here is the draft:
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Right to Divorce

Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed By: Love and esterel

The United Nations,

-A- NOTING the good effects of marriage and the happiness it procures for many people

-B- NOTING that some married people make mistakes in selecting of a partner

-C- NOTING that some married couples have difficulty staying together for extended periods of time - let alone for the rest of their lives

-D- CONCERNED by the futures of children of married couples that do not wish to stay together

-E- CONCERNED about the financial situation of the individuals in the union and the children of that union


-1- DECLARES that the marriage may be ended by divorce in the following cases:
-1.1- Both partners ask for divorce
-1.2- One partner request a divorce and it is accepted by the other partner
-1.3- One partner requests the divorce due to domestic violence issues from the other partner
-1.4- One partner requests the divorce after 1 years of being officially separated
-1.5- One partner repeats a request for a divorce 3 months after the initial request

-2- DECLARES that each party has the right to employ a lawyer for the divorce case

-3- DECLARES that both parents have the right to continue to regularly see their children after a divorce, except for cases where the divorce was over domestic violence

-4- URGES Nations to ensure that their legislation protects both partners and their children in divorce cases by granting financial help for one partner at the expense of the other one, when a fair solution can be found in order both partners and children can live with a reasonable financial situation - except in cases where the divorce was over domestic violence,

-5- ENCOURAGES all Nations to support organisations/associations providing help to married/divorced persons/couples by anonymous meeting, phone call, or internet contact.

Co-authored by Forgottenlands UN
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[Groot Gouda]

Another domestic issue

[Love and esterel]

Groot GoudaNov 17 2005, 10:10 AM Another domestic issue[/quote]

Of course you can say that, it's your right to be a sovereignist, but then most Human Right resolution are also domestic issue, no pb about that


Quote: Furthermore, even if you want it implemented, it's a bit restrictive. You'd have to wait for months if your partner doesn't agree with a divorce.[/quote]

thanks
yes it's more restritive than the actual law in your RL nation, but cases in -1- are just basic conditions, our draft doesn't prevent national divorce legislations to be less restrictive.
i was thinking it was implied in the text, but it's maybe not clear; Forgottenlands told me about that and we are thiking about expressing it more clearly

Quote: It's useless.[/quote]
In some countries as Iran or saudi-arabia (even spain until 2004) and others, divorce is very restrited, these restrictions are sometimes dramatic and they are Human right violation

[Groot Gouda]

I'm not a sovereignist. I'm a realist. You can't regulate every little detail throughout the UN. It's not efficient, it neglects cultural diversity. Just like your other resolutions you write national legislation and present it as a UN resolution. That just doesn't work for all those nations.

And the resolution clearly states in clause one which time periods must be used when dealing with divorce. That means that using any other time period, whether that's a week or a decade, is non-compliance. Simple as that. So this resolution is restricting my marriage laws, and I don't want that because you are limiting the freedom of my, and many other people.

As for your realworld examples, well, I fear that their NS-equivalents will find other ways to suppress people. This resolution won't help a bit.

You haven't taken away my concerns about this resolution, in short.

[Love and esterel]

Quote: And the resolution clearly states in clause one which time periods must be used when dealing with divorce. That means that using any other time period, whether that's a week or a decade, is non-compliance. Simple as that. So this resolution is restricting my marriage laws, and I don't want that because you are limiting the freedom of my, and many other people.[/quote]

thanks you made a good point here, i was thinking that the text was about "minimal" conditions, and i must be wrong, i think we will modify it to take account your suggestion

About your position, you have for all of my proposition, that you think my propositions are useless, i respect it, no pb, but as i have explained each time why i think it's important and i had never been convinced bt your arguments, i'm sorry i can't do anything about that

[Grosseschnauzer]

There is another more fundamental issue, though. Not all domestic partnerships are considered marriages in all jurisdictions.......and while some jurisdictions refer to the termination of a marriage as a "divorce" others do not and use the label "dissolution"

There's also the possibility of marriage and divorce being religious and not civil matters in some places.

I do share Groot's concern about the specifitivty.....there are ways of assuring minimum standards without this level of detail.

[Love and esterel]

GrosseschnauzerNov 17 2005, 08:03 PM There is another more fundamental issue, though. Not all domestic partnerships are considered marriages in all jurisdictions.......and while some jurisdictions refer to the termination of a marriage as a "divorce" others do not and use the label "dissolution"

[/quote]
Thanks for your comment

yes, maybe we can include something

"-1- DECLARES that the marriage may be ended by divorce or dissolution in the following cases, but not limited to:"


Quote: There's also the possibility of marriage and divorce being religious and not civil matters in some places.[/quote]

This proposition don't want to force any religion to regognize divorce, it's just want to secure the right to divorce for everyone, in my RL nation some people are divorced, but heir divorce is not recognized by the Varican for example, so it's Ok for everyone

Quote: I do share Groot's concern about the specifitivty.....there are ways of assuring minimum standards without this level of detail.[/quote]

i will probably agree with you, we are looking for the best way to state it, maybe the new -1- (up) can deal with that

[Love and esterel]

hi
i would like to thanks those who have a constructive approach in your region
but because of the repeated personnal attacks by Groot Gouda, i think this will be my last post in this forum

I hope LAE and the IDU will manage to continue to have good diplomatic relation and that the IDU will continue its great Work for the UN
best

[Groot Gouda]

Love and esterelNov 17 2005, 10:18 PM "-1- DECLARES that the marriage may be ended by divorce or dissolution in the following cases, but not limited to:" [/quote]
And what exactly does the resolution do then? Don't make me go cynical again! :duh:

[rpiddy]

Love and esterelNov 17 2005, 10:41 PM because of the repeated personnal attacks by Groot Gouda, i think this will be my last post in this forum

[/quote]
Anybody crying yet?


Steve Perry
President
Republic of Teruchev

[Malabra]

Um...sorry to see you go Esterel, although I'm not sure what the deal with this feud is. :unsure:

[Groot Gouda]

LaE continuously writing useless UN resolutions is part of it, as well as ignoring any criticism that disagrees with LaE's point of view.

I'm not sorry to see him go, to be honest. With this kind of proposals, there's not much the IDU can do to improve them.

[Lawtonia]

I agree with the esteemed leader of Groot Gouda on this issue. Domestic partnerships should not be an international issue because there are cultural issues with marriages which vary from nation to nation which are impossible to address in a UN resolution.

As a member of the IDU I applaud Love and Esterel's efforts to make the UN stronger but it is not the job of the UN to rule our nations. Divorce is not an internationally significant issue within NS and local laws deal with this quite adequately.

[Malabra]

Well, although I disagree that you should do that purely based on the proposal that they wanted constructive criticism on, I don't exactly agree with the proposal either. This should be left up to the nation and not the UN. Sorry.

Just my 2 cents.