[Bears Armed]

Obviously these are only suggestions, and you're free to reject any of them -- or to say that some of these species were present within [what's now] your nation but have been hunted to [local] extinction -- but anyway...

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Any species that in RL is native both to Eurasia and to North America is probably native to at least part of the IDU as well: e.g. Brown Bear, ['Gray'] Wolf, [European] 'Elk'/[American] 'Moose', Barn Owl, Golden Eagle, Peregrine Falcon, Osprey.

Any basic type of animal with one or more species native to RL Eurasia and another one or more native to RL North America probably also has at least one of those species native to at least part of the IDU, too, or has one or more other species 'endemic' to (i.e. native only to) at least part of the IDU; e.g. Black Bear, Red Fox (if that isn?t just one single species, in RL, anyway), Lynx, Beaver, [European] 'Red Deer'/[American] 'Elk', Bison, [European] Otter/[American] River Otter, White-tailed Eagle/Bald Eagle.

Smaller species tend to have shorter generations than larger ones, allowing faster evolution, so are more likely to be endemic.

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Considering both latitudes and ocean currents, I would expect climates in these nations to range from 'arctic' [in the most northerly parts of mainland Legionas] through sub-arctic and cool temperate to [in the more southerly parts of Laeral] warm temperate. The interior would experience more extreme seasonal changes than the coasts, as is normal. There are extensive mountain ranges along most of the overall area?s western edge, with some uplands further east as well. Woodlands would therefore range from boggy scrub [furthest north] through coniferous and mixed forests into [in the more southerly parts of the lowlands] predominantly broad-leaved ones. Where the former nation of Antrium bordered Dommonia there was also an area of prairie, a westwards extension of the larger area belonging to that ecosystem which is situated within the latter country - although that situation might now have changed?

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From an earlier discussion about part of this area

Antrium's original player said: "I see Antrium's fauna as being very North American. (I do live there, after all.) Rabbits, raccoons, squirrels, deer, maybe some buffalo in the eastern plains. Lots of forest-dwelling birds. Obviously, most of the country's fauna would have to be more mountain-oriented, like mountain goats, types of birds, the Antrian Hare, etc. I'd probably go along with anything that's proposed for the area, as long as I can have rabbits/hares and the GranvéoSnowfinch."

Ireplied: "Sure, that fits in with your neighbour Domnonia's ecology... and your "buffalo" would probably be the same species as (although quite possibly a different sub-species from) my "bison"...
As far as montane fauna is concerned, I'm giving the region a feline species called the 'SnowCat? that isn't quite the same as the RL 'Snow Leopard' but is along similar lines to that: It's present in the range of mountains running [basically] east-west that form the barrier between Malabra on the hand and Bears Armed/(what's left of "the Unknown Territories") on the other, so its range could plausibly extend into your lands too... Okay?
How do you feel about a few Tigers?"

Antrium replied: "Snow Cats would be fine.

Tigers might be too, if the climate's right. I'd never really thought about it, but it would be fine."

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I would expect the overall area's species of large mammals[on land] to include Brown Bear, Polar Bear (although only in the furthest north of Legionas), probably [Iduvian] Black Bear (in the densest woods in the southerly parts of Laeral&maybe High Fells), Puma/Cougar/'Mountain Lion', IDU endemic the 'Snow-Cat' (in mountainous areas, above the tree line), Lynx (in the more open areas elsewhere, especially in the north), possibly Tiger (in some of the woodlands, within which it ?replaces? the Puma), 'Gray' Wolf, possibly either Coyote (which was present in Dommonia) or Golden Jackal (which occurs, now, in what was the western section of the former nation Keeslandia?) but probably not both of those, an endemic species called the 'Summer Dog' (so-named because it hibernates; related & similar to the RL Raccoon Dog that?s native to parts of eastern Asia & has also been introduced into north-eastern Europe for its fur?) in the subarctic & maybe even parts of the cool temperate belt, possibly Wolverine (in the colder & boggiest bits of the north); Wild Pigs, Bison (of both 'plains' & 'woodland' forms), Musk Ox (but only in the furthest north of Legionas), Sheep/Goats/Goat-antelopes of several species (in the mountainous areas), possibly Musk Deer [ditto], [American] 'Moose' (in the boggier parts of the northern woods, at least), [Iduvian] Red Deer, probably the IDU-endemic 'Spotted Deer' (Cervus maculatus; a bit smaller than the Red Deer/[American] 'Elk', filling a similar ecological niche to RL North America's White-tailed Deer), probably Roe Deer (either the same species as in RL Eurasia or an endemic relative), Iduvian Water Deer (related to the RL Chinese species); possibly wild Horses/Ponies of one or more kinds, possibly a 'Hairy' [non-tropical] species of Rhinoceros, and maybe even a surviving species of Chalicothere. The section of the former ?Antrium? into which prairie extends from Dommonia (if that's still the case) might also be home to the latter nation's native 'Arcuile Antelope', which is a close relative of the RL [North American] 'Pronghorn'.
Although we tend to think of Monkeys as tropical, some RL species do live in more temperate climates instead: This area could plausibly have a species of 'Macaque' (similar to the 'Barbary Ape' & the Japanese Macaque of RL) and/or a species of leaf-eating 'Snub-nosed Monkey' (as one such species in RL manages to survive in montane woodland in central China), even in areas where the winter weather may include snow.

Turning now to the question of marine mammals:
The region's Whales would all belong to RL species, and most of the larger RL species are probably present at least sometimes somewhere in the region's seas although the one RL species of 'baleen' whale that has a purely Antarctic range is presumably absent and some of the 'Beaked Whales' from RL might find the neighbourhood too cold: However, I think that the Gray Whale's migration routes through IDU waters keep it outside the seas around these nations. Most of the Dolphin species present within the region are probably also ones that can be found in RL, apart from one or more species of 'River Dolphin' which are limited to warmer waters in the Malabra/Iapetus area, but with a lower proportion of those RL species present here, and for Porpoises we probably have one or two endemic species with no RL ones.
Another player described three species of Sea-Lions as endemic to the IDU, but that was years ago and the details seem to have been lost. Whether or not we have those, we have several types of Seals as well, and in some of the region's more northerly waters - for example, around Legionas - the Walrus too.
Also in region?s more northerly waters, we have a species of 'Sea-Cow' (related to the RL [extinct] Steller's Sea-Cow, to RL's Dugong, and more distantly to the Manatees...) which is a herbivore that feeds on kelp.
Also, Sea Otters?

[Laeral]

Wow- this is really in-depth (much like your other regional ecology posts). I haven't established much about Laeral's wildlife, but I'd like to incorporate some of this. I haven't been thinking of Laeral's ecology as North American, but I could see bears, Summer Dogs, birds of prey. The few details I've established about Laeral's ecology are that it's somewhat similar to Central China's ecology; in that light, the 'snow-cat', summer dog, and water deer would make sense. I have also established that Laeralian waters have many species of fish.

Where is Legionas located in relation to Laeral?

Anyways, this is all very helpful. You've put a lot of work into this, and now I can start establishing details about Laeralian ecology.

[Legionas]

Wow,I could not have broken it down better....but also in the area that was formerly Antrium would be the ideal habitat for a babirusa or tapir of some sort,the Legionasian Amur Leopard,Manchurian wapiti and the Eurasian brown bear.

The native fish:
Dunkleosteus plays a major role in Legionas' history and is farmed in large numbers on the south coast particularly at the border[1 or 2 find their way o the other side of the IDU].The Artic Char dominates the eastern area of Legonas and is a delicacy for many.It is found mainly in R Weriese[A river that runs from Mt Mors Apicem,to the coast].Bluefin Tuna,Rainbow Trout,whitespotted char,Nile perch,minnows,shrimp and many other crustaceans are evident and live in harmony.

[Laeral]

Based on climate, what range of temperatures could I expect to find in Laeral? I would assume the coasts and the Riverlands (the fertile region around the Laer and Zhongshui rivers) would be cooler than other regions, but what range of temperatures would there be?

[Bears Armed]

Wow- this is really in-depth (much like your other regional ecology posts). I haven't established much about Laeral's wildlife, but I'd like to incorporate some of this. I haven't been thinking of Laeral's ecology as North American, but I could see bears, Summer Dogs, birds of prey. The few details I've established about Laeral's ecology are that it's somewhat similar to Central China's ecology; in that light, the 'snow-cat', summer dog, and water deer would make sense. I have also established that Laeralian waters have many species of fish.

Where is Legionas located in relation to Laeral?

Anyways, this is all very helpful. You've put a lot of work into this, and now I can start establishing details about Laeralian ecology.

Okay. The ecosystems of RL central China are a bit "impoverished" nowadays due to the long history of extensive agriculture, especially in the lowlands: Were the lands that became Laeral similarly turned mostly into farmland, or did a bit more 'wild' country survive even outside of the mountain ranges? If there is more room for large-ish wild animals then at least some of the other deer that I suggested and that you haven't mentioned here are probably still reasonable assumptions... although (1) the [European] 'Elk' / [American] 'Moose' would probably be replaced either by the RL Pere David's Deer or by an IDU-endemic relative of that species which I've already placed in parts of Bears Armed anyway; (2) there'd probably have been 'Wild Cattle' [related to the now-extinct Aurochs of RL Europe] rather than Bison and those might now have been fully replaced by domestic stock or survive now only in protected hunting-parks; and (3) you might have leopard rather than puma, which would fit in with Legionas's wish for the latter species (although the question of whether leopards could continue to hold this ecological niche in the long term, or would eventually be displaced by puma migrating in from adjacent lands, is an interesting one...). Wolves, Bear, and Spotted Deer [of a RL species], all survived in parts of Japan until quite recently, so they'd be reasonable for a slightly wilder equivalent of central China too. I think that your rivers probably are neither big enough nor warm enough year-round to support either Alligators or River Dolphins, as the RL River Yangtze does/did though.

Legionas is north & north-east of Laeral, in the north-east of Antrium plus the far east of Kesslandia and some of the islands to the east of that.

[Bears Armed]

Wow,I could not have broken it down better....but also in the area that was formerly Antrium would be the ideal habitat for a babirusa or tapir of some sort,the Legionasian Amur Leopard,Manchurian wapiti and the Eurasian brown bear.

The native fish:
Dunkleosteus plays a major role in Legionas' history and is farmed in large numbers on the south coast particularly at the border[1 or 2 find their way o the other side of the IDU].The Artic Char dominates the eastern area of Legonas and is a delicacy for many.It is found mainly in R Weriese[A river that runs from Mt Mors Apicem,to the coast].Bluefin Tuna,Rainbow Trout,whitespotted char,Nile perch,minnows,shrimp and many other crustaceans are evident and live in harmony.

Leopard? okay, but see my post to Laeral just above this. Wapiti, sure, that would fall within the 'Red Deer'/[American] 'Elk' group of species that I've already suggested would be represented here anyway. Brown Bear, certainly.
The region probably doesn't have Babirusa, given that the limited range they have in RL is quite some distance from the nearest other RL lands that have given us species, and I suspect that the bits of former Antrium now within your territory are a bit too cold (and/or don't have suitable foods available all year) not only for them but also for Tapir as well: Would you settle for Wild Pig (which is present in the RL Manchuria/Amur area), and maybe a Chalicothere or a Hairy Rhino (which would be about the size of a tapir), instead?

Dunkleosteus? Seriously? Okay, but I'm not going to try explaining how could have survived in the IDU's waters ever since the Devonian Period: As far as I'm concerned, if you really want them then [even IC] they were only incorporated into this region when the relevant "reboot" of history brought your nation as a whole here.

Char certainly, and I've already got some (probably of a separate species) in [nation]The Ursine Northlands[/nation].
Bluefin Tuna, okay, but probably only at the southern edge of your waters and even then the cold current passing southwards from the arctic would limit their activity: Your fishermen would probably have to travel some distance out to the south-west to find many of these.
Nile Perch are probably adapted to warmer climates than yours. Would you settle for something more like the 'Pike-Perch' or 'Zander' of RL, or even for a Pike, instead?

[Laeral]

Okay. The ecosystems of RL central China are a bit "impoverished" nowadays due to the long history of extensive agriculture, especially in the lowlands: Were the lands that became Laeral similarly turned mostly into farmland, or did a bit more 'wild' country survive even outside of the mountain ranges? If there is more room for large-ish wild animals then at least some of the other deer that I suggested and that you haven't mentioned here are probably still reasonable assumptions... although (1) the [European] 'Elk' / [American] 'Moose' would probably be replaced either by the RL Pere David's Deer or by an IDU-endemic relative of that species which I've already placed in parts of Bears Armed anyway; (2) there'd probably have been 'Wild Cattle' [related to the now-extinct Aurochs of RL Europe] rather than Bison and those might now have been fully replaced by domestic stock or survive now only in protected hunting-parks; and (3) you might have leopard rather than puma, which would fit in with Legionas's wish for the latter species (although the question of whether leopards could continue to hold this ecological niche in the long term, or would eventually be displaced by puma migrating in from adjacent lands, is an interesting one...). Wolves, Bear, and Spotted Deer [of a RL species], all survived in parts of Japan until quite recently, so they'd be reasonable for a slightly wilder equivalent of central China too. I think that your rivers probably are neither big enough nor warm enough year-round to support either Alligators or River Dolphins, as the RL River Yangtze does/did though.

Legionas is north & north-east of Laeral, in the north-east of Antrium plus the far east of Kesslandia and some of the islands to the east of that.

In Laeral, only the Riverlands region is especially fertile, so it has historically been home to most of Laeral's agriculture. Most of the rest of Laeral has had small-scale agriculture, but there have always been undeveloped areas even outside of the mountains. Many areas were unsuitable for agriculture but hunters still hunted in them. As such, I'll note that there are still deer. What is the endemic species of deer that Bears Armed has?
Wild cattle are extinct in Laeral.
By leopard, do you mean Snow Leopard or do you mean a species of spotted leopard such as the North-Chinese leopard or Indochinese leopard?
I'll note that there are wolves, bear, and spotted deer.
What do you think about Laeral having the following species: wildcat/Chinese mountain cat, mongoose, marmot, porcupine, hares, and cranes? I don't know much about marine life, but the above species are all animals I think of as living in Laeral.

[Legionas]

Wow,I could not have broken it down better....but also in the area that was formerly Antrium would be the ideal habitat for a babirusa or tapir of some sort,the Legionasian Amur Leopard,Manchurian wapiti and the Eurasian brown bear.

The native fish:
Dunkleosteus plays a major role in Legionas' history and is farmed in large numbers on the south coast particularly at the border[1 or 2 find their way o the other side of the IDU].The Artic Char dominates the eastern area of Legonas and is a delicacy for many.It is found mainly in R Weriese[A river that runs from Mt Mors Apicem,to the coast].Bluefin Tuna,Rainbow Trout,whitespotted char,Nile perch,minnows,shrimp and many other crustaceans are evident and live in harmony.

Leopard? okay, but see my post to Laeral just above this. Wapiti, sure, that would fall within the 'Red Deer'/[American] 'Elk' group of species that I've already suggested would be represented here anyway. Brown Bear, certainly.
The region probably doesn't have Babirusa, given that the limited range they have in RL is quite some distance from the nearest other RL lands that have given us species, and I suspect that the bits of former Antrium now within your territory are a bit too cold (and/or don't have suitable foods available all year) not only for them but also for Tapir as well: Would you settle for Wild Pig (which is present in the RL Manchuria/Amur area), and maybe a Chalicothere or a Hairy Rhino (which would be about the size of a tapir), instead?

Dunkleosteus? Seriously? Okay, but I'm not going to try explaining how could have survived in the IDU's waters ever since the Devonian Period: As far as I'm concerned, if you really want them then [even IC] they were only incorporated into this region when the relevant "reboot" of history brought your nation as a whole here.

Char certainly, and I've already got some (probably of a separate species) in [nation]The Ursine Northlands[/nation].
Bluefin Tuna, okay, but probably only at the southern edge of your waters and even then the cold current passing southwards from the arctic would limit their activity: Your fishermen would probably have to travel some distance out to the south-west to find many of these.
Nile Perch are probably adapted to warmer climates than yours. Would you settle for something more like the 'Pike-Perch' or 'Zander' of RL, or even for a Pike, instead?

I agree

[Bears Armed]

In Laeral, only the Riverlands region is especially fertile, so it has historically been home to most of Laeral's agriculture. Most of the rest of Laeral has had small-scale agriculture, but there have always been undeveloped areas even outside of the mountains. Many areas were unsuitable for agriculture but hunters still hunted in them. As such, I'll note that there are still deer. What is the endemic species of deer that Bears Armed has?
Wild cattle are extinct in Laeral.
By leopard, do you mean Snow Leopard or do you mean a species of spotted leopard such as the North-Chinese leopard or Indochinese leopard?
I'll note that there are wolves, bear, and spotted deer.
What do you think about Laeral having the following species: wildcat/Chinese mountain cat, mongoose, marmot, porcupine, hares, and cranes? I don't know much about marine life, but the above species are all animals I think of as living in Laeral.

The endemic species equivalent to [RL] Pere David's Deer, I'm just calling 'Marsh Deer'. Its genus would be Elaphurus, as for the RL species: For its specific designation, I still need to consult somebody who's better at Latin. (Fortunately, some of the people who operate the 'Latin Mottos' thread in the main forum's Gameplay section are willing to help with Latin taxonomy enquiries too...)

By leopard, I mean actual "spotted leopard" (as you call it here), Panthera pardus, but the western mountains would probably have the IDU's endemic 'Snow-Cat' -- which is very similar to the RL Snow Leopard in both appearance and ecology, but more closely related to the Puma instead -- as well.
Wildcat or Chinese Mountain Cat or something very similar, certainly.
Mongoose if you really want, as 2 species in RL do range into southern China, but I'd expect members of the Weasel family to be more significant here.
Marmot, certainly.
Porcupine, do you mean a 'ground' porcupine as in RL Asia, or a 'tree' porcupine as in RL America: either or both would be fine, although the 'ground' species probably would be limited to the southern end of your territories.
Crane, I was actually going to suggest when we got as far as birds, so of course that's okay.

Sturgeon? Paddlefish?

[Laeral]

I'll note the 'Marsh Deer', spotted leopard, 'snow-cat', and the other animals you've mentioned.

As for porcupines living in Laeral, I was thinking the 'ground porcupine', such as the Malayan Porcupine.

You're planning to do bird species as well? As far as birds living in Laeral, I've been thinking cranes, herons, some geese and swans, some owls, pigeons, grouse and pheasants (making up a major food source in Laeral, especially due to the lack of arable land) and maybe some species of birds of prey (falcons and the like).

I'd say yes for sturgeon, but some species in Laeral are endangered due to overfishing. The same is true with paddlefish.

[Bears Armed]

As for porcupines living in Laeral, I was thinking the 'ground porcupine', such as the Malayan Porcupine.

You're planning to do bird species as well? As far as birds living in Laeral, I've been thinking cranes, herons, some geese and swans, some owls, pigeons, grouse and pheasants (making up a major food source in Laeral, especially due to the lack of arable land) and maybe some species of birds of prey (falcons and the like).

I'd say yes for sturgeon, but some species in Laeral are endangered due to overfishing. The same is true with paddlefish.

Noted re the Porcupine. it will probably be Malabra's species, which is closely related to the RL 'Great Crested Procupine' (Hystrix indica) of southern Asia & the Middle East: Okay?

I plan to define the birds present down to at least the 'family' level, and eventually in more detail for the larger or more "important" ones as well. All of the basic types that you mention are certainly ones that I'd expect to see there... and in the pheasant/partridge/grouse group I expect that you'd also have Snowcock.
Presumably the locals keep domesticated geese, as well as hunting the wild ones? If so, then their stock might come either from the local equivalent of the Greylag Goose (source of most RL domesticated goose varieties) or from the ?Swan Goose? (source of the RL ?Chinese [domesticated] Goose?)?
Two more avian suggestions: (1) A species of colourful duck similar to the RL ?Mandarin Duck?.
(2) A species of small bird, similar & related to the RL ?Snow Bunting?, which migrates seasonally across the region. This ?Granveo Snowfinch? was written-up by Antrium?s player, so I think that keeping it around would be a nice touch: I?ll try to find the old details.

Noted re the Sturgeon & Paddlesfish. My vision of the region?s fauna includes several other groups from that stock, which don?t also occur in RL, and I?ll put together a post about those fairly soon.

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Legionas: Most of this applies to your nation as well, although some forms (such as the porcupine, and the paddlefish) might not be found naturally that far north. Also, in the coldest section of your lands ? the bit that was formerly the north-eastern corner of Keeslandia ? there could plausibly be a few herds of Reindeer (Caribou) if you?re interested?

[Laeral]

What is the name of the Malabran porcupine species?

Noted regarding the snowcock. I would say that some Laeralites keep domesticated geese, of both the Greylag and 'Swan Goose' varieties. Do you have any name ideas for the Iduvian variant of the mandarin duck? I'm thinking maybe the 'Bonnet Duck', from the Mandarin duck's scientific classification, or maybe the 'painted duck'. I'll also keep an eye out for details on the Granveo Snowfinch.

Again, thanks for all your help in developing mine and Legionas' ecosystems. It's extremely useful, and I would never have been able or willing to explain it in so much detail.

[Bears Armed]

What is the name of the Malabran porcupine species?

Noted regarding the snowcock. I would say that some Laeralites keep domesticated geese, of both the Greylag and 'Swan Goose' varieties. Do you have any name ideas for the Iduvian variant of the mandarin duck? I'm thinking maybe the 'Bonnet Duck', from the Mandarin duck's scientific classification, or maybe the 'painted duck'. I'll also keep an eye out for details on the Granveo Snowfinch.

Again, thanks for all your help in developing mine and Legionas' ecosystems. It's extremely useful, and I would never have been able or willing to explain it in so much detail.

The porcupine is Hystrix malabraica scientifically; its local names probably vary.

I've already got an Iduvian 'Mandarin Duck'in Bears Armed's fauna, so will look through my notes to see what it's called there.

There's no need to thank me, I enjoy finding this outlet for my interest in such matters... but thank you for thanking me, anyway.

:bear:


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And now, some more suggestions:

Birds
The larger species present would also include Cormorants, in the coastal regions of Laeral and southern Legionas, and probably in the 'Riverlands' of Laeral as well. Maybe fishermen in one part of the Riverlands - probably around a fairly large lake, or in an area with several smaller ones - take young cormorants from the nests and train them to bring in fish, as fishermen around at least one lake in RL China did?
Swans would probably include a member of the Tundra/Whistling/Bewick's group (nest on the tundra, then migrate south to over-winter), a member of the Trumpeter/Whooping group (a bit larger, nest on in the subarctic forests then migrate south to over-winter) and ? at least in Laeral's 'Riverlands' - a fairly close relative of the RL 'Mute Swan' (basically a permanent resident in the south).
In RL, northern & central China have at least five species of Cranes present for parts of the year: So, maybe three here?
There would probably be several other species of wild geese present, seasonally, as well as the already-mentioned two from which RL's domesticated varieties were derived.
Your nations would have Herons, as well: There'd be at least one species related to the [European] Grey Heron & [North American] Great Purple Heron here, and (at least in the Riverlands) probably both a Bittern and a Night Heron too? and maybe even more, with differing ecological niches. In fact, bearing in mind how far the 'Little Egret' has spread across RL Earth during recent decades, I wouldn?t be surprised to learn that that species has actually made it from Earth into the southern Riverlands under its own power?
Legionas and the north-eastern coast of Laeral probably have a species of Gannet among their seabirds
We don't have Albatrosses, which simply haven't reached our shores yet: However, we do still have albatross-sized (or just slightly larger) members of the ?Sawbeaks? instead...

Aquatic Mammals
Despite what I said earlier, if you want them then there could be a population of Gray Whales that migrates past the region's eastern coasts as well as the [already established as existing] population off of the western coasts: Apparently in RL there was originally a North Atlantic population, as well as the still-surviving North Pacific one, before the whalers moved in...

Fish
Although I didn't plan on the region having any surviving types of ['jawed'] fish from quite as far back as the Dunkleosteus that Legionas is taking as a part of their nation's fauna, I did plan on having the more 'primitive' groups of 'Bony-finned Fish' survive here to a greater extent than they've managed in RL. So, as well as Sturgeon & Paddlefish_
'Dwarf Sturgeon'/'Grubbers'/'Mudfish': very similar to Sturgeon, but maximum length c. 2 feet; purely freshwater, feed on invertebrates on or close to the beds of rivers & ponds especially where there's not enough room for 'true' Sturgeon. (They do not produce a reasonable 'caviar', and their flesh is generally considered too 'muddy' in flavour to be favoured as food by people?). These could occur in Laeral, High Fells, and southern Legionas.
'Ice Sturgeon': one species, maxiumum length c.5-6 feet; found in freshwater that freezes over in winter; ?hibernates?, producing a chemical that makes its flesh poisonous to potential predators - who therefore tend to leave it alone - as well as more resistant to damage from freezing. (It cannot also use this chemical for protection against predators while active itself during the warmer months, however, because of harmful effects that the stuff would have on its own tissues then?) This might occur in northern Legionas.
'Bony Sturgeon': several species that have bonier skeletons & more scales than do the 'true' Sturgeons, varying from c. 1 foot to c.6 feet in length, feeding habits basically similar to Sturgeon & 'Dwarf Sturgeon' except that these live only in the sea and feed near the sea-bed a little way below the 'low tide' line.
'Whalefish': The largest member of this group, up to 24 feet (or even 30 feet?) in length, unarmoured; another purely marine species, this one has evolved to filter-feed on plankton and thus fills a similar ecological niche to the RL 'Basking Shark' (which is absent from our waters).

In the southern 'Riverlands', instead of Pike, there are probably Gar. The sea to the south of that might also have marine relatives of the Gar, filling a role as fast predators, too. Close relatives of the RL (North American) Bowfin occur in suitable freshwater habitat across the region.

[Laeral]

So I've finally managed to put all of the species listed here into a single table: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=laer.../id=720579

I'm calling the Iduvian Mandarin Duck a 'Bonnet Duck' for now, and I've discarded the Mongoose.

Regarding the cormorants, that does sound like an interesting and very flavorful idea. I'll note it as being in practice in the provinces of Nanhai, Minsheng, and Shaoxing, all rural provinces in the western Riverlands. As for a name for the Iduvian 'mute swan', perhaps the 'Snowfall swan' for its color and lack of migration?

Regarding the herons, may I have one endemic species, the 'Riverlands Heron'? And may one of the crane species also be endemic and related to the Demoiselle Crane?

What is the name for the Iduvian sawbeak?

[Bears Armed]

As for a name for the Iduvian 'mute swan', perhaps the 'Snowfall swan' for its color and lack of migration?

Regarding the herons, may I have one endemic species, the 'Riverlands Heron'? And may one of the crane species also be endemic and related to the Demoiselle Crane?

What is the name for the Iduvian sawbeak?

'Snowfall Swan' is a lovely name, but to me it seems more appropriate for one or another of the migratory species -- arriving with, and "like", the snows -- rather than for the year-round resident. It's your nation, though, so if you want to say that your people use this name for the resident species then of course that's your right.

'Riverlands Heron', okay. Shall we say that it's a relatively small bird (as herons go), which would help to "explain" why it isn't more widespread, belonging to the 'Green Heron' group?
Would you be okay with it having a very close relative -- which is either a "sister-species" or another sub-species of the same species -- in eastern Malabra? That's an area whose birds I haven't yet done much about, and this would seem suitable bearing in mind the geographical situation as well as my initial ideas about the matter...

A species of crane related to the [RL] Demoiselle Crane, sure. Endemic, that's a bit iffier: Looking at RL Cranes in general, as well as the Demoiselle Crane in particular, I think that it would have to migrate seasonally and thus spend part of the year outside your territory... Winters in your lands [more or less exclusively], summers in western Malabra?

[Laeral]

All right. So we can use 'Snowfall Swan' as the name for a species of migrating swan. What name do you have in mind for the non-migrating swan species? I'm not very familiar with naming conventions for animal species.

Having a Malabran sister-species of heron is perfectly fine.

Spending summers in Malabra is fine for the Iduvian crane similar to the Demoiselle Crane.

By the way, if you hadn't figured it out, I don't know all that much about zoology and so I am largely drawing suggestions for species in Laeral from Wikipedia. I've also had to look up most of the individual species you've listed.

[Bears Armed]

A species of crane related to the [RL] Demoiselle Crane, sure. Endemic, that's a bit iffier: Looking at RL Cranes in general, as well as the Demoiselle Crane in particular, I think that it would have to migrate seasonally and thus spend part of the year outside your territory... Winters in your lands [more or less exclusively], summers in western Malabra?

Oops! That should be spends the summer (& breeds) in your territory, but over-winters in western Malabra, not vice versa as I'd previously written...

[Bears Armed]

I've checked for the 'Marsh Deer', and Elaphurus palustris does seem to be the "correct" Latin name.

For the Swans, I suggest that the species present all through the year be called [because of that behaviour] the 'Loyal Swan': I think that this would be Cygnus fidelis but, again, will check. I suggest using 'Snowfall Swan' for the Tundra/Bewick's/Whistling Swan equivalent, because it arrives with (or even "as") the first snowfall of the winter, with the Trumpeter/Whooping Swan equivalent here being the 'Bugler Swan'. I'll check on Latin names for these, too.

For the Saw-billed (or False-toothed) seabird, my Latin name for the one in your waters would be Odontopiscator orientalis which translates literally into English as "Toothed fisher of the east". The Bears call this group of birds by a name that translates as 'Soarers'. Thus this particular species might be called the Eastern Sawbill, Eastern False-toothed Seabird, Eastern Soarer, Saw-billed Albatross (if your nation's colonisers mistook it for an albatross...), or -- of course -- by some native pre-colonial name with a distinct other meaning...

[Laeral]

I personally don't think 'Loyal Swan' sounds right. The idea behind the name seems sound to me, though. How about the "Fidelity Swan"?

Noted regarding the 'Snowfall Swan' and the 'Bugler Swan'. The word 'bugler' bring up some memories for me- I once created the character of an eager young naval officer named Nelson Bugler, based upon Horatio Hornblower.

From the list of names you've presented for the saw-billed seabird, I think 'Eastern Sawbill' would be most appropriate.

[Bears Armed]

I personally don't think 'Loyal Swan' sounds right. The idea behind the name seems sound to me, though. How about the "Fidelity Swan"?

Noted regarding the 'Snowfall Swan' and the 'Bugler Swan'. The word 'bugler' bring up some memories for me- I once created the character of an eager young naval officer named Nelson Bugler, based upon Horatio Hornblower.

'Loyalty', 'Fidelity', I suspect that they both translate identically into Ursine anyhows...
Okay, you call the ones in your nation 'Fidelity Swan' (or 'Cygne de Fidelite', or whatever), but the English name for the ones in Bears Armed will probably be 'Loyal Swan'. No reason why everybody IC has to agree on the matter, is there?

:bear:

______________________________________________

Re Hornblower: Have you read any of the 'Honor Harrington' series, by David Weber?
They're sort of Hornblower-inspired SF, with space navies whose ships [for technical reasons] have most of their armament arranged in broadsides and that therefore (because battles in space are fought on a 3-D basis, rather than a 2-D one like sea battles in Hornblower's time) organise into a "wall of battle".

[Laeral]

Having different nations translate the swan's name differently is perfectly fine. In fact, that probably makes it more realistic.

Regarding Honor Harrington: I've read a good number of them- books 1 to 8. I haven't been able to find the later ones, but that doesn't bother me too much. I personally think they started going downhill. Still, it's my favorite depiction of space combat because I feel it's the most realistic. Energy weapons don't make sense in space, so launching salvos of hundreds of nuclear-tipped missiles against the enemy's point defense and countermeasure systems would be more realistic.

[Bears Armed]

'Loyal Swan'/'Fidelity Swan' = Cygnus fidelis (certainly)
'Bugler Swan' = C. aeneator (certainly)
'Snowfall Swan' = C. nivati (almost certainly)

For the special species of Crane, as a close relationship to the RL 'Demosielle Crane' suggests that it's probably one of the smaller Cranes, how about an English name of 'Dainty Crane' and hence the Latin name Grus tener?

[Laeral]

'Dainty Crane' works. I'm not sure what I could use the Latin names for, though.

[Bears Armed]

I'm not sure what I could use the Latin names for, though.

You use the Latin names for what they're used for in RL: checking whether similar animals in other nations, which might be known by different English names or names in native languages (e.g. my 'Loyal Swan' compared to your 'Fidelity Swan'), belong to the same species.

[Bears Armed]

Now, Trees.
I don't know how much detail you're interested in considering on this point, but it would fit the theme for the Riverlands [at least] to have a species of Gingko and either the RL Dawn Redwood or a fairly close relative of this (but probably not the same species that's found in some parts of western Bears Armed [Mainland]), although both might -- as in RL China -- survive now only where they've been deliberately planted by people. Some other "interesting" conifers that occur in RL eastern Asia but are less familiar to Europeans & Americans are the Golden Larch, the [Japanese] Umbrella Pine (genus Sciadopitys, now limited to one species in Japan but prehistorically also occurring at least as far west as the shores of the Baltic Sea where it gave rise to that area's famous Amber deposits...), and genus Cryptomeria (the 'Japanese Cedar' or -- more rarely -- 'Chinese Cedar', cultivated in both Japan and China for so long that its wild origins have been lost...): Bears Armed [Mainland] has two species of Cryptomeria, either or both of which could also occur in parts of the former Antrium if you like the concept but don't want either to use the RL species or to invent any endemic ones of your own... We also have a species of coniferous shrub, in a related but endemic genus, whose bark can be processed to yield a spice with similar properties to Ginger...

:Bear: