[Bears Armed]

I?ve now done quite a bit of work on the map of Bears Armed, as I hope you?ve seen either in the Cartography Department or on NSwiki, and have worked out quite a bit more about this nation?s history while doing so? but before I can fit that history into a coherent time-line I really need some more information about the earlier history of the region as a whole. I do know about its original nations being founded by immigrants from somewhere around the Pacific, but presumably that was rather longer ago IC than it was in RL terms (Yes? No?) so?

1/. Just how many years ago [IC] did that migration occur?
2/. Did the immigrants find a population of indigenous humans, probably at a fairly low tech-level, already present in at least some parts of this region? (Their doing so would fit BA?s history better than the absence of any such people?) What about ruins left by an earlier, ?lost? civilisation?
3/. How long ago [IC] were the following nations founded? _ Keeslandia, Antrium, South Antrium, Fonzoland (if anybody still present can remember?), Malabra, the ?Free Land of the IDU?, Mikitivity, and whatever other nations adjoin Mikitivity?s western borders? Are any of these known to have replaced former nations, and if so then how old were those too?
4/. For each of those nations, is the population descended primarily from immigrants, primarily from indigenous people, or from a more even mixture of the two types?
5/. Did any of those nations? peoples already have any stories about contacts with sapient Ursines before the mystical barrier around the ?Unknown Territories? weakened and the existence of ?Bears Armed? was announced? Although many of today?s Ursines? ancestors ?awakened? to sapience within the lands that are now held by ?Bears Armed? there were also some groups that ?awakened? elsewhere and then migrated here from ? or, at least, through ? the surrounding territories instead so that the local humans (especially if indigenous) might remember them in folklore if not in actual history? (There have been various other non-human peoples in & around the ?Unknown Territories? who might have been known to outsiders too: I?ve marked the locations of ?Badgers?, ?Otters?, and a vulpine group that?s called the ?Vokksur People? on my Wiki map? and several alternative types formerly existed too, but the vicious [& allegedly] Chaos-worshipping ?Wulfen? ? a species of lupine ancestry, as their name suggests, but commonly ?mutated? by the proximity of their homes to the ?Shunned Ruins? ? destroyed the others before themselves becoming extinct?) In fact, if any of your nations still include any suitably unexplored areas of wilderness there might even be a few small (& probably relatively primitive) bands of Ursines present out there nowadays...
6/. What about the Bears? northern clans, who live around the eastern & north-eastern shores of the land-mass where Old Ceorana was also located as well as on a number of islands out beyond those? Should we say that they were also shielded by a mystical barrier until quite recently, or did some of you have occasional contact with them without suspecting that they were secretly part of a much larger nation, or did you sort-of know they were up there but leave them alone for some reason (such as a ?Star Trek?- style ?Prime Directive?, which seems as though it might fit the region?s general ethos?)?

Extra questions for Mikitivity, which could be answered by TG instead of here:
7/. If your nation?s population does include any groups with significant levels of ?indigenous? ancestry then is it possible (in your opinion) that some of these might actually be descended from Ursines who were mystically granted ?human? form, long ago, so that they?d be able to hide in plain site? If so, then are any of them nowadays actually ?Were-Bears?? (The population of ?Bears Armed? includes one minor clan that claims descent from humans whom the ?Great Bear? granted Ursine form, some members of whose leading families may actually be able to shapeshift back again under certain conditions although if they can then that certainly isn?t common knowledge, so a ?balance? for their existence seems reasonable to me?)
8/. Where does the connection to your railway network reach our borders? Ideally it should be fairly close to one or another of the towns that I?ve marked on my map, and it can?t be into the area surrounding the ?Holy Ruins??
9/. Do you want the treaclefield that my Wiki map shows as touching our mutual border (outlined in dark brown dots, just to the south-west of the Badgers) to extend under the river there and into your own people?s lands? If so, then did they already know about this natural resource or have they only just learnt of it ? from the Bears ? and perhaps asked for advice from us about how to exploit it?
(For any of my readers who don?t already know: ?Treacle? is the usual name that we British apply to a dark, very sticky, sugar-containing liquid that Americans would probably call a medium-heavy grade of ?Molasses?? Several places in England have old stories claiming that it used to be mined there, which inspired Terry Pratchett to place ?genuine? treacle-mines in his ?Discworld?, and I decided that the concept would make an amusing addition to THIS nation too?)
10/. A comment that one of your engineers made in the General Assembly several months ago, and certain other factors too, leads me to think that there was already some clandestine contact between our peoples going on for a while before the Bears announced their existence to the world at large: If you agree then how far back do you want to take this, and how far up through your nation?s political system will you admit the knowledge went?

[Embolalia]

Kedalfax was IC founded in 1845, replacing colonial rule. It was settled around 1552

The current Brechenlass was founded IC in 1946, replacing older government. That area was settled around 1592.

Hope that helps establish some timeline. I'm not really near you, so I can't say all that much.

Though, I put in Brechenlass's history that they conquered a large area between 1650 and 1918, and again between 1925 and 1945. I've not altered other nations' histories, figuring it's just some fractal reality stuff you can ignore if you want.

Both my IDU nations are mostly immigrants. In fact, I haven't even mentioned natives.

[Malabra]

To answer your questions:

Malabra itself was not a country until November 2004. Before that it was actually two independent, self-governing countries located roughly next to each other. The names for those countries were Mala and Branuham. Both of these countries were ruled by dictators until a popular rebellion by locals and allies ousted them. After the war they decided to combine together and form a new country. Since the area around the two were generally uninhabited, some land that had never before been annexed into the country, was now annexed to make the country's boundaries flow more evenly (which could lead to a possibility of small, insignificant numbers of other populations that have assimilated into Malabrian descent over time). Most of the countries' culture, history, and customs were the same, so combining the two was no problem.

All Malabrians are indigenous to the lands, especially their own 'countries'. We didn't hear word about most countries until after they landed and established themselves on the IDU continent (which I think we should name ). We did have contact with a few, though.

Concerning your nation, as the Civil War was coming to a start, the dictator of Mala was leading an expedition to your area because it was previously unexplored. That's when we could have 'officially' made contact.

More can be found of my (unfinished) Wiki: http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Malabra

[Antrium]

Antrium's history is almost entirely made up of the American Federalist/Riconiaa Refugee Crisis, which you can find here on these forums: here.

3. Antrium was founded on August 12, 2005, and expanded to its current borders on February 18, 2006. South Antrium was founded on May 18, 2006.
Antrium replaced American Federalist, which I've RP'd to start at 1776, since it would make sense with the name.
4. A mixture of indigenous people (Alv?sis, Navlanis, Ithernians to be added soon) and immigrants from Keeslandia, former AF, Domnonia, other nations across the IDU.
5. I haven't made anything yet, but I'm always looking for some good folklore
There could be a meeting any time, really. AF explorers could have encountered bears in the woods west of Antrium, or it could be pre-AF. Doesn't really matter, although the older it is, the more likely it is to be good, extremely distorted, folklore.

If you have more questions, ask. I have a NSwiki too, but it's not that helpful.

[Grosseschnauzer]

As to the schnauzerlands, there is both a traditional pre-federation culture and history, as well as a modern society that resulted in the schnauzerlands federation.

The traditional culture originated as early as 1300, although it is not clear whether the schnauzer peoples emigrated from elsewhere, or the culture arose in the "traditional homelands." At some point, one of the royal families settled in Liebchen City along the Great Schnauzer River, which emerged as the cultural center in the medieval era. Over time, tribal clans governed over most of the current territories, including the islands offshore to the northwest of the main IDU continent. Unlike many monarchies, the traditional royal families followed a maternal line of succession,, rather than a paternal
Towards the end of the 20th century, the various tribes agreed that a modern democratic government would better serve the territories and crafted a system of townships for local governments, organized into five nations. The governing document, known as the Treaty of Mutuality, It allowed each of the five nations to elect one hundred members of a federation parliament on a proportional basis, and the 500 members would elect a federal government consisting of a chancellor and a federal executive. It was at that point the schnauzerlands joined the UN and the IDU. At the end of 2005, in the same set of events that created Antrium, the schnauzerlands agreed to admit a sixth nation, Schnauzer Dominions into the federation as a equal member.
Schnauzer language and culture is essentially germanic (having elements of culture from RL Germany, Austria, Switerland, and Denmark, and they hold a special affection for the canine breeds for which they are named.
In recent years, the schnauzerlands have embarked on a massive infrastructure program that included international airports, limited access highways, high speed rail, ports, and public facilities such as athletic facilities, universities, and national parks. It has created an economic boom.
(I haven't had time to really sit down and flesh this out further, but this is what I've had in mind all along.)

[Gnejs]

the nation Gnejs, then named The Commonwealth of, was founded in 1899. Although the area was populated before that. Rouge states and small communites. The nation Gnejs we know today was really founded in 1934 when democracy was really introduced to the country.

EDIT: I just realized you weren't asking me.. but hey, the info is on the house

[Bears Armed]

My thanks to all of you who have responded so far. I'm glad to see that my hopes about the region having had indigenous Human inhabitants as well as colonists from elsewhere is supported by your evidence. (I do realise that I should have looked at everybody's wiki entries before asking the questions, but just hadn't been able to spend long enough online lately to do so...) Okay, here?s my projected outline for how the Bears? history interacts with that of the region as a whole?

(Stone Age? Bronze Age?): Humans arrive on this continent (which the Bears today call ?Yord??)
c.1600 BC:: Date of the oldest archaeological remains (in east-central Yord) that are currently attributed to the (Human) 'proto-Luvasian' culture.
Early in the first millennium BC: The 'Luvasian' civilisation develops in the eastern half of the continent, and builds at least the two cities whose remains are marked on my map as the ?Holy Ruins? (within Bears Armed) and the ?Shunned Ruins? (out beyond the Bears? eastern border). There may have been some other cities too: I?d especially suggest that there was one in what?s now the ?Free Land of the IDU?, with exploration of its remains a possible reason why the region?s founding nations placed their shared ?capital? in that relatively ?awkward? location? and maybe one quite some distance to the east, that?s now under the sea off the coast of either ?Antrium? or ?Fonzoland?, as well?
115 BC: The masters of the city that's now "the Shunned Ruins" are almost certainly responsible for the mysterious plague that devastates ancient Nimali.
Last century BC: A series of civil wars occur within that civilisation, probably triggered by the masters of the city that?s now the ?Shunned Ruins? meddling with ?Things That Bear Was Not Meant To Know?. It seems that some Bears were ?awakened? into sapience by the masters of the city that?s now the ?Holy Ruins?, either before or during those wars, but that original population of ?Ursines? failed to survive the conflict?s conclusion. It seems probable that groups of humans trying to get away from this fighting (perhaps from conquered or destroyed settelements in the south of the area) were responsible for bringing civilisation to the lands (across the mountains that form this area?s southern border) that now comprise the nation of ?Malabra??
05 AD: The warring cities are destroyed, with all[?] of their inhabitants, in a mystically-detonated cataclysm. Most of the surviving humans in their hinterlands flee the region: it?s possible that a few Humans do try to remain there, but that close proximity to the weird energies involved in the devastation causes their descendants to mutate into the non-sapient species that?s now called the ?Goldilocks?. A mystical barrier is erected [in mysterious circumstances] around the centre of that civilisation?s former lands at around this time, and not only ?contains? the remaining monstrous servitors of the ?evil? city?s masters away from the surrounding lands but also prevents any later Human migration back into the region as well although given the nature of the stories handed-down amongst the nearer peoples not many of their members would have wanted to move there anyway? This barrier is [probably] at its weakest along the ranges of mountains that form the southern border of these ?Unknown Territories? (as we can now accurately call them).
(I?d also suggest that the first generations of the sapient ?Schnauzers? were created in the [suggested] city that?s now a cluster of ruins in the ?Free Land?, and that their species subsequently migrated west into the modern Schnauzerlands as a part of the general flight away from the war?s cataclysmic ending ? if not from its earlier stages, instead ? but of course that?s not for me to decide?)
(Or maybe in a 'Luvasian' city located in the lands that are now Keeslandia, instead?)
c.500 AD: Bears begin ?awakening? to sapience again, initially only within the ?Unknown Territory? but in surrounding lands too before more than another two centuries have passed. Inherited ancestral memories leave them wary about Humanity, and contact between the species consequently tends to be very infrequent.
c.1200 AD: The ?Wulfen? organise into a Chaos-worshipping ?Horde?, with iron weapons, and become a menace not only to the Ursines (some of whom then organise themselves into a Kingdom for defensive purposes) & the various other inhabitants of the ?Unknown Territories? (including the ?Rabbit-people?, who lived in the area that?s now the north-eastern corner of B.A. and also out to the east of this along the southern border of what?s now the nation of Keeslandia, whom they totally exterminate?) but perhaps also on a small scale ? although the mystical barrier would have kept their raids limited in scope ? to the Human societies in adjacent lands too!
During the following centuries a gradual revival of civilisation amongst the region?s other inhabitants (including the humans and 'Schnauzers' who have begun moving into what's now the nation of [i]Grosseschnauzer' from the lands to its north)[/i], and their formation of organised states, pushes most of those ?Ursine? groups that still dwelt further afield to migrate into the[/i] ?Unknown Territories?, although not all of them join the existing nation there. Some of those who are coming from the west, accompanied by a few clans of friendly humans, linger for a while in the [then sparsely-populated] area that?s now the nation of Mikitivity.
1463 AD: Final victory of ?Bears Armed? over the ?Wulfen?.
Early 16th century AD: First human explorers from other regions make contact with this continent?s inhabitants. Colonists settle in the lands that are now known as ?Kedalfax? & ?Brechenlass?.
1770s-80s? AD: American Federalists arrive on the eastern coast of the ?Unknown Territories?, where the mystical barrier has retreated several hundred miles westwards since the fall of the ?Wulfen?, and settle amongst the relatively primitive indigenous tribes there. If they have contact with any Ursines at all then this is only with a few small (and also relatively primitive clans) whose ancestors ?awakened? there and who have chosen to remain in their old home rather than risk passing the ?Hazardous Wastes? to reach ?Bears Armed?.
1840 AD: The withdrawal of the Ursines from the rest of the region into the ?Unknown Territories? is basically complete by this date, expect perhaps from parts of what?s now Mikitivity or of the mountains down by what was later to become the nation of Malabra.
Late[?] in the 20th century AD: Covert contact is resumed between ?Bears Armed? and some humans ? descendants of the ancient ?Bear-friend? clans? ? in Mikitivity.
2004 AD: The mystical barrier has weakened sufficiently along the southern mountains that the dictator of ?Mala? 9in what's now the nation of 'Malabra' 'is able to send scouting missions across it, seeking ?new worlds to conquer? (and perhaps any mighty weapons that might be left behind from the ancient war there, for use against his rivals closer to home?). They don?t actually reach the nation of ?Bears Armed? itself, but do bring back proof that sapient ?Ursines? exist to the north? and one expedition reaches the lands of ?Clan WhiteWater?, where its aggressive behaviour leads both to its destruction and to that people?s decision [finally] to join their northern neighbours? federation. The dictator leads a larger expedition in their direction, but the outbreak of a rebellion in his own country forces him to turn back?
24th July 2004: Official date when the ?International Democratic Union? was founded.
1st June 2006 AD: The nation of ?Bears Armed? announces its existence to the rest of the world, its official ?first contact? being with Mikitivity, as the remains of the mystical barrier finally decay into non-existence except in a few limited areas.
January 2007 AD: ?Bears Armed? joins the ?IDU Regional Council?, makes ?first contact? with a hitherto-concealed nation of ?Philosophical Pandas?, and establishes a protectorate over the remains of ?Old Ceorana? at the request of some of that land?s Human residents.

Do any of you have any problems with any of these details?

[Malabra]

Sounds good to me...although I'll probably change the dates of the two dictatorships.

[Grosseschnauzer]

My perception is that the schnauzerlands would have had early settlements in the 1200-1300 time frame, and perhaps there were waves of migration in later centuries tied by roots of language and culture. The traditional rule by royalty would go back to the earliest migrations.

[Bears Armed]

Okay, I've modified the time-line to take account of your latest comments: also, I've added a few more details (such as the name that's most commonly attributed by modern scholars to that ancient civilisation, although in fact it may have been the extinct culture's name for the land-mass on which it existed or even for all of the lands now forming the region as a whole...) too...

[Nimali]

Hey- replying to your post in the other thread.
The city was construced circa 2300 BC.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Nimali

just in case you need any more info.

[Bears Armed]

NimaliFeb 13 2007, 07:27 PM Hey- replying to your post in the other thread.
The city was construced circa 2300 BC.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Nimali [/quote]
Okay, thanks. I'll write that into the general timeline.
I think that the "barbarians" mentioned might actually have been 'Luvasian' forces, but are probably more likely to have been less advanced peoples who were moving in your direction to get away from that civilisation's influence: The mysterious plague that destroyed ancient 'Nimali', on the other hand, almost certainly originated in the city that's now "the Shunned Ruins"...

[Nimali]

How they got to my island, is anotehr story?

[Bears Armed]

NimaliFeb 14 2007, 03:40 PM How they got to my island, is anotehr story? [/quote]
Oops! For some reason I was getting the positions of 'Nimali' confused with that of 'Gnejs'...
Okay, forget about the possibility of those "barbarians" having been Luvasian themselves, or even having been personally pushed west by that civilisation -- although they might have been pushed by tribes who were pushed by tribes who were formerly on its borders -- but I still have very strong suspicions about the plague...

[Nimali]

Why Thankyou- i actually needed a reason- might come up with a story or something. My nation does need a change :S.
Thanks.

[Mikitivity]

Bears ArmedFeb 1 2007, 11:15 AM
Extra questions for Mikitivity, which could be answered by TG instead of here:
7/. If your nation?s population does include any groups with significant levels of ?indigenous? ancestry then is it possible (in your opinion) that some of these might actually be descended from Ursines who were mystically granted ?human? form, long ago, so that they?d be able to hide in plain site? If so, then are any of them nowadays actually ?Were-Bears?? (The population of ?Bears Armed? includes one minor clan that claims descent from humans whom the ?Great Bear? granted Ursine form, some members of whose leading families may actually be able to shapeshift back again under certain conditions although if they can then that certainly isn?t common knowledge, so a ?balance? for their existence seems reasonable to me?)
8/. Where does the connection to your railway network reach our borders? Ideally it should be fairly close to one or another of the towns that I?ve marked on my map, and it can?t be into the area surrounding the ?Holy Ruins??
9/. Do you want the treaclefield that my Wiki map shows as touching our mutual border (outlined in dark brown dots, just to the south-west of the Badgers) to extend under the river there and into your own people?s lands? If so, then did they already know about this natural resource or have they only just learnt of it ? from the Bears ? and perhaps asked for advice from us about how to exploit it?
(For any of my readers who don?t already know: ?Treacle? is the usual name that we British apply to a dark, very sticky, sugar-containing liquid that Americans would probably call a medium-heavy grade of ?Molasses?? Several places in England have old stories claiming that it used to be mined there, which inspired Terry Pratchett to place ?genuine? treacle-mines in his ?Discworld?, and I decided that the concept would make an amusing addition to THIS nation too?)
10/. A comment that one of your engineers made in the General Assembly several months ago, and certain other factors too, leads me to think that there was already some clandestine contact between our peoples going on for a while before the Bears announced their existence to the world at large: If you agree then how far back do you want to take this, and how far up through your nation?s political system will you admit the knowledge went? [/quote]
Here are some answers.

7.
I like the idea of were-bears. The basic mythology is that the region was once home to dragons, who by their very nature were solitary and very sparsely populated. Other races, such as elves and orcs (corrupted elves) naturally shared the mountains and valleys with the dragons. Legends hold that some humans had settled into the region long before the mostly German and French speaking settlers later came, and it is from these earlier groups that the stories about the Den Jays -- gnomes turned into birds come.

But yes, I do believe our populations not only have been aware of the other, but should have something of a mutual respect which ties back into rather fantasy like legends and stories. I see the human populations as being "river people" (not unlike how humans have spread in Tolkein's stories), and with large expanses of forests still around, I'd see werebears and even regular ursines being not uncommon, but welcomed citizens.

8. I'll have to get back to you on the rail network ... like you, I have a few places where "Dark Elves" and "Evil Humans" once had citadels, which I imagine were used to conduct wars that reached across the central land mass of the IDU.

9. I like the idea that perhaps treaclefield should extend into my nation as well. But I also think that it should be a resource that we did not know about until your population came over to Mikitivity to help "mine".

10. I think there should *always* have been legends that the forests to the east of Mikitivity were "protected" by forest spirits as ancient as the elves and dragons, and that some of the cantons have known for hundreds of years while others did not know until they joined the Confederation (and even then did not make such information public until some time we could call the age of statehood). I'll throw this back at you ... when is a good time for you? Mikitivity is loosely modeled after Switzerland, so I've figured the Confederation itself dates back to the 1600s in its current form, but that the cantons themselves are easily 1,000+ years old. The cantons have fought each other for ages, and in doing so, tended to turn a blind eye towards most other nations, with a few exceptions.

[Malabra]

Bears Armed, just wanted to let you know that I updated my history a little in my Wikipedia entry. I set more concrete dates for the countries.

[Baranxtu]

If I may put a little southern perspective into this... as far as IC history goes, what is today Baranxtu was first settled by migrants from the north around 3000-2500 BCE (by what would ultimately become the Masenasi and Phip cultures), who were later largely conquered by a second wave of immigration by what would become the Marani tribes (around 1700 BCE).
The interesting thing is that I've always planned for both Masenasi and Marani religions to include totem animals (basically wolf, tiger, eagle and *bear*) with a backstory that sentient demidivine specimens of these "animals" were those who led them to these parts down here...

(The now dominating colonists didn't arive before the end of the 17th century... how exactly is another mystical mystery unglasses: )

[Bears Armed]

MikitivityFeb 15 2007, 12:33 AM 7. I like the idea of were-bears.? The basic mythology is that the region was once home to dragons, who by their very nature were solitary and very sparsely populated.? Other races, such as elves and orcs (corrupted elves) naturally shared the mountains and valleys with the dragons.? Legends hold that some humans had settled into the region long before the mostly German and French speaking settlers later came, and it is from these earlier groups that the stories about the Den Jays -- gnomes turned into birds come.
But yes, I do believe our populations not only have been aware of the other, but should have something of a mutual respect which ties back into rather fantasy like legends and stories.? I see the human populations as being "river people" (not unlike how humans have spread in Tolkein's stories), and with large expanses of forests still around, I'd see werebears and even regular ursines being not uncommon, but welcomed citizens. [/quote]
Right. I'm not so sure about Dragons having existed on my side of the river, at least not in 'historical' times: maybe the Luvasian civilisation eliminated any who formerly lived here... or one of its cities was secretly run by them... or they were created as "living weapons" during the Luvasians' final wars, and any of them who survived the fighting chose to move away from the area afterwards (and had ben created as incapable of reproducing?)...
Is it possible that your 'Elves' & 'Orcs' were actually stocks of human origin who'd been altered in ancient times, either deliberately ('Elves' = ruling castes, improving themselves; Orcs = fast-breeding labourers/warriors?) or by the magical "fallout" from the destruction of the cities? I'd definitely suggest that that was where your Gnomes came from, as that would tie them into the probable origin of the 'goldilocks' too...

Re Tolkien: my Ursine clan of alleged Human ancestry (& possible 'Bere-human' membership) was already called the Beornings' before you mentioned his works...

Quote: 8. I'll have to get back to you on the rail network ... like you, I have a few places where "Dark Elves" and "Evil Humans" once had citadels, which I imagine were used to conduct wars that reached across the central land mass of the IDU.[/quote] I'd definitely be interested in finding out where those cities were, and how long ago those conflicts happened. If they weren't part of the Luvasian civilisation then maybe they were even earlier (although, having now seen a bit more about what was going on in the region in earlier times, I might move the Luvasians a bit further back anyway...)and the first proto-Luvasian culture was founded by human survivors from their wars instead...

Quote: 9. I like the idea that perhaps treaclefield should extend into my nation as well.? ? But I also think that it should be a resource that we did not know about until your population came over to Mikitivity to help "mine".[/quote]Okay. Maybe we can RP this at some point, if & when we've both got the time.

Quote: 10. I think there should *always* have been legends that the forests to the east of Mikitivity were "protected" by forest spirits as ancient as the elves and dragons, and that some of the cantons have known for hundreds of years while others did not know until they joined the Confederation (and even then did not make such information public until some time we could call the age of statehood).? I'll throw this back at you ... when is a good time for you?? Mikitivity is loosely modeled after Switzerland, so I've figured the Confederation itself dates back to the 1600s in its current form, but that the cantons themselves are easily 1,000+ years old.? The cantons have fought each other for ages, and in doing so, tended to turn a blind eye towards most other nations, with a few exceptions.[/quote]
I provisionally have the date for the last wave of Ursines moving into BA from the west as late as the early 18th century, but those might have been relatively small groups or have stealthily crossed your territories from somewhere beyond. I can move them back slightly, but probably not by more than a century. Contact between our peoples, on more than an individual & very occasional basis, might be because they re-established links with some of the indigenes in your eastern cantons a little while later, after they'd formally joined this nation in c.1800-1812-ish AD...
Afterthoughts If your main culture began around the rivers then maybe it was only after the cantons joined together that they really established control over the highlands in the centre of what's now 'Mikitivity' and that last wave of Ursines came from up there?

Oh, and I think that the levels of magical energy around (& available) in these parts should have fallen significantly since ancient times...

[Bears Armed]

MalabraFeb 15 2007, 01:47 AM Bears Armed, just wanted to let you know that I updated my history a little in my Wikipedia entry.  I set more concrete dates for the countries. [/quote]
Okay, I've seen it. that makes them roughly contemporary with the organisation of states in the Schnauzerlands, too, which seems reasonable. However maybe your older dates are still when refugees from the Luvasians' civil wars moved south & brought some aspects of 'ancient' civilisation to the land?

Would you please take a look at my thoughts about the region's mammalian fauna, in the forum's NSwiki section, and let me know [there] what groups you think are present in your nation? (This applies to everybody else whose nation is already on the map, too...)

[Bears Armed]

BaranxtuFeb 16 2007, 07:27 PM If I may put a little southern perspective into this... as far as IC history goes, what is today Baranxtu was first settled by migrants from the north around 3000-2500 BCE ...The interesting thing is that I've always planned for both Masenasi and Marani religions to include totem animals (basically wolf, tiger, eagle and *bear*) with a backstory that sentient demidivine specimens of these "animals" were those who led them to these parts down here... [/quote]
H'mm, that makes those first settlers roughly contemporary with the dawn of civilisation in what's now 'Nimali'...

The 'totem spirits' bit would fit something that I'm working on, although the [sapient] Ursines themselves weren't actually around that long ago...

[Malabra]

Perhaps we should add this to the IDU's wikipedia entry (or a subpage)?

[Bears Armed]

MalabraFeb 17 2007, 08:40 PM Perhaps we should add this to the IDU's wikipedia entry (or a subpage)? [/quote]
I think that it needs some more work first, but eventually...

[Malabra]

Bears ArmedFeb 19 2007, 01:47 PM MalabraFeb 17 2007, 08:40 PM Perhaps we should add this to the IDU's wikipedia entry (or a subpage)? [/quote]
I think that it needs some more work first, but eventually... [/quote]
Yeah, I agree. Some more history might be coming in the future...

[Gnejs]

Quote:  I was getting the positions of 'Nimali' confused with that of 'Gnejs'... [/quote]

feel free to incorporate gnejs in your project.. think i posted some basic info earlier in this thread.

EDIT: post 200! yeeeyyy!