[Klouch]

*The General of Armed Forces for Klouch walks off the stage briskly asking himself why he is in a room full of delegate pussies when he could be blowing up stuff. *
"I mean jesus, the guy has a thermos with him and the other guy is from some country and is like 30 years younger than me and has probably never seen blood."


*The President of Klouch*

"I agree with the Representitive of Ceorana that free trade should be opened between participating nations and top level madates need to be made."

*sits*

[Mikitivity]

I must say that my government agrees with the positions outlined by Deval?ra and Friedman. I believe Dwight's agenda topics such as freedom of movement can easily be worked into a consensus sort of agreement, and the item of having a standardized procedure for dealing with future humanitarian crisis within the region also is a high priority with my people.

-M.Gottswald

[Gnejs]

*Thomas Mind adjusts his tie and works toward the podium*

My fellow IDU members. Firstly, I would like to say thank you to Prime Minister Carlson for getting the debate started.

*takes a sip of water, sort of sweating*

To be honest with all of you, time has been a factor for me and my co-workers, and we have not done an as extensive reading of the statements made by previous delegates as we would have liked. Therefore I will give a longer gnejsian reply tomorow. But presently, we would like to state our support for the line proposed by Mr. Friedman of Ceorana, Mr Deval?ra of Antrium and Mr. Gottswald of Mikitivity.

Thank you.

*Mind steps down*

[Saidercray]

*Ian Woshkal enters the podium*

Ladies and gentlemen,

we want to express our support to most of what has been said so far by you. It is nice to see that there is a general agreement amongst us concerning basic ideas of what the new organisation shall be like.
We especially agree to Mr. Friedman's idea of compulsory top-level mandates and of optional resolutions. We strongly agree to the idea to make membership voluntary and that no nation of the IDU may be forced to join the new regional organisation nor to remain a member against its will. These two ideas can guarantee that national law will only have to subordinate to international law in case that's necessary and that - up to a certain point - the people of a nation will be governed only by those they have chosen to govern them. The organiosation should have the right determine borders where they are necessary - for example, democracy and human rights mustn't be optional - but within these borders, individual nations should be allowed to decide which laws they have and whether or not they adopt a resolution. This united diversity seems good to us, and it can be achieved by voluntary membership and by co-existence of compulsory and voluntary resolutions.
Furthermore, we would like to bring up the idea that either all or some resolutions of the organisation should be open also to those nations of the region which aren't members of the organisation. For example, if we agree on a mutual non-agression pact, nations from outside the organisation should be given the right to apply for joining the pact, so that they can't attack a member state and can't be attacked by a member state. Of course, the members of the organisation should have to right to decide whether the organisation adopts or turns down the nation's application.

*Woshkal goes back to his seat and sits down again*

[Gnejs]

*Thomas Mind walks toward the podium. He is, yet again, sweating. He's thinking.

"I have to get this looked at, I mean, this is ridiculous! Friedman is bothered by it, I can tell. Lucky for me he's to polite to mention anything." *

My fellow IDU members.

After having done a more proper reading of the proposals at hand, we stand fast in our support of what we will call, The Friedman Initiative. The idea of "Top Level" mandates in questions of great importance is, in our humble opinion, a good one.

A part from the examples proposed, such as Human Rights, a issue we would like to see as a Top Level Mandate is the enviromental one. The GPRG has long been an advocate for enviromental questions, but the enviromental problems we face today, and which other generations will face in the future, does not care about national borders. And neither should our attempts at stopping them

Thank you all for your time.

*Mind steps down, shivering*

[Stolidia]

*The Ambassador of Stolidia rushes into the room, juggling a cup of coffee and a large sheaf of papers, some of which flutter unnoticed to the floor. He finds a seat, and after arranging his papers and sloshing coffee on half of them, rises to speak.*

Sorry I'm late. Had a bit of a problem with the computer in my office. See, I had this program that.... Oh, never mind.

My government is pleased to have the opportunity to participate in these discussions. I feel it necessary to state that we do so with some trepidation. The policies of my government are firmly anchored in the principle of subsidiarity, which holds that decisions on governance should be made at the lowest level at which they can practicably be made. Only in this way can these decisions properly take into account the specific situations, needs, values, and desires of those affected by them. In our time of observing the activities of the NSUN, we have been repeatedly dismayed by the attempts of that organization to force-fit one-size-fits-all requirements and prohibitions on thousands of member nations with widely varied environments, cultures, and systems of government.

I'd like to stress that this principle is very different from an absolutist approach to the issue of "national sovereignty." We fully acknowledge that there are many issues which can only be handled properly at the international level by an international organization. We trust that the nations participating in these discussions will take every care to identify what those issues are and limit the scope of activity of the proposed body to them. We believe that these discussions may bear valuable fruit in establishing mechanisms for voluntary participation in international activities in the areas of trade, mutual defense, scientific cooperation, environmental protection, and more. We look forward to our participation.

*He sits down, puzzled. He thought he remembered writing a speech twice as long. Some of the pages seem to be missing. Oh well. I guess the other people lucked out.*

[Federation of Disjunction]

*The Disjunciton delegate, Johnathan Farbashire, walks in looking a bit disheveled.*

I must apologize as there was an incident with a tranquilzer gun rulting in my unavoidable tardiness. Please forgive me.

Firstly I must comment that it gives me great pleasure to see all the participation from so many great nations in this wonderful region. You are all a credit to the nations you serve.

When thinking about the structure of any regional body, freedom of participation and in implementation of decisions would seem to logically fit considering the values of our region. The Disjunction position, and one which I share myself, is that this body would function as a meeting of nations, who already share many similar values, to discuss matters of varying importance to help each other determine the best way of governance for themselves. Would the decisions of this group (representing the majority opinion of its memebers) be binding on either all IDU nations or even all member nations? In our humble opinion, no.

Governance in a vacuum has a way of making all decisions made within that vacuum seeming infallible. The role played by a group such as this would be to incite debate, discussion, and potenially acceptance of a new direction within the nation, ultimately repsecting that nation's right to govern itself but providing guidance in determining what the best way is for that nation to do so. The general concern of some delegates expressed here would be addressed by this structure. Also the concern that there be some higher level of rights implemented is addressed in theory by the fact that in order to be a member of the IDU, nations must have some agreement with most of the founding ideals, which would suggest that most of what the concerned nations would consider fundamental mandates are not in question. For example, environmental conservation is not at question but how the environment is conserved and to what level and with what cost is debatable and potentially adoptable by those who agree with the the outcome of the discussion.

To summarize my typically long-winded speech. Nations can choose to participate or not participate. Nations can choose to adopt or not to adopt. But the value of the body is to share philosophy and ideology; strategy and tactics to make one's own nation a better place for all people who reside there and the nations' leaders better for participating in the learning process.

Thank You All.

[Gnejs]

*Foreign minister Winborg takes the floor*

My fellow IDU nations.

I trust you have all enjoyed this short break, but now it is really time to get back to the core.

Firstly, we in the gnejsian delegation would like to welcome the representatives from Disjunction to the summit. Your presence have been missed.

We have seen a big number of proposals concerning how this new "IDU UN" is to be made up. There is no doubt that we have a long period of time and discussion ahead of us before we can come to a decision accepted by all participating nations, but we feel there are certain more practical issues which could be settled as this time. The question of delegacy for example. For how long is the elected leader of this organization to remain in office? And how should the election process look like? These are simple, practical questions that will give us a nice foundation to contuine further discussions about how this organization should be made up and questions concerning, for example, national sovereignty and the points brought up in the so called (by gnejsian officials) Friedman Initiative.

On antoher note,

I will be taking over as the gnejsian voice during this summit as Mr. Mind has been forced to return home due to a rare case of Tropical Fever. He sends his greetings and would like to express his gratitude to all participating nations and the hosts of Klouch.

Thank you for your time.


*Winborg steps down*

[Quintessence of Dust]

We echo many of the previous comments to ours; we are delighted so much thought has obviously been put into this conference. That said, and mindful of the initial notes of caution we sounded, and further wary of appearing impatient, we must urge that discussion move to more specific proposals. General characterisations of how we should progress are fine, but at some point they must be acted on. We believe it is time to move towards that. I am personally unsure of what protocol will be observed from now on - whether we will fall to round table discussions, or whether we will remain in formal plenary, for example - but I shall, anyway, start the ball rolling with some suggestions my staff and I have devised. I must stress that at this point I am speaking generally and openly, and not necessarily conveying the wish of the government or people of Quintessence of Dust.

Firstly, we would oppose the creation of a superregional parliament. We do not believe such an assembly could accurately represent the views of the people. There appears to be a growing consensus that a two-tier system might emerge, of higher and lower level mandates, perhaps of differing strength, certainly of differing degrees of effect; we would tentatively not oppose this. If this is to be the model - the Friedman Model - then we would propose the following order of operations.

Should this summit prove useful, we would move to sign a general convention on regional cooperation, which would establish here, in Klouch, in the IDU capital, or elsewhere, a (small) permanent secretariat to administer the convention. This secretariat would prepare proposals on issues, and be able to take into account national interests: nations would be able to make representations to secretariat committees, which would anyway be staffed by IDU nationals. The 'higher' proposals would then be debated and voted at regional summits; 'lower' proposals would be forwarded to national governments, who would choose to sign them, to ratify them, or otherwise. The secretariat would also oversee the administration of such treaties, including their renewal and amendment.

As to specific proposals, we concur on the matters of human rights and environmental cooperation being of paramount concern. Other useful areas would perhaps be in security and energy policy. I am aware that my department has prepared a potential proposal for the United Nations on extraordinary rendition; we would certainly encourage a good faith internal IDU agreement on this practice, perhaps as part of a broader torture initiative. Also of interest to us would be an IDU Space Agency, or if not, then at least heightened regional cooperation regarding the use of space.

Dwight produces a piece of paper, frowning slightly that his notes are scribbled on a program, and squinting to read the hurried scrawl.

Additionally, we would like to propose as our contribution an 'IDU Value Initiative' - he turns to wince at his staff, who cringe in the background - perhaps to be retitled, which would stress the values 'justice, environment, industry, education' through a four-strand raft of measures: an agreement creating an international war crimes court; an agreement on carbon emission reduction; an agreement on the free movement of people; and a university exchange program.

I thank you for your time, and hope that we can move to discussing these, and other, measures, in the spirit of productivity and progress.

--Secretary of State James Dwight

[Eisophca]

My friends, I submit this proposal for charter for consideration, discussion, amend-tion, insultion, and various other words ending in "tion", "sion", or "ion":

Quote: 
The Great Legion of Omnibusly Benevolent Entities (GLOBE)

Preamble: Since we don't like killing, fighting, bad government, stupid decisions, tariffs, protectionism, killing, apple juice, 20%-off coupons, killing, blockers, repeals (unless they have replacements, or the resolution was really bad), killing, killing, stupid decisions, killing, killing, killing, or 30%-off coupons (unless their cash value is 1/100 of a cent (national currency equivalent)), we, speaking as the representatives of all the great people within the great administrative divisions of the great nations of the great region of the International Democratic Union, which is, by the way, great, we form this union of nations to answer the timeless question "Can't we just all get along?".

Section One: Leadership

There shall be two officers within the council: the Secretary-General and the General Secretary.

1.1: The Secretary-General

The Secretary-General (SecGen) shall be elected once a year (OOC: once a month, approximately, by a two-week (OOC: three-day) public vote. This means that votes will be open for all to see. The SecGen's home nation has the authority to replace the SecGen should the SecGen resign or be killed or incapacitated. The SecGen shall be the leader of the council, and shall have the authority to place bills up for debate and vote, assuming the bills in question have a second and a third.

1.2: The General Secretary

The General Secretary (GenSec) shall be in charge of secretarial tasks, such as moving legislation around, cluttering up archives, blowing up the chambers when necessary, etc. He or she shall be appointed by the SecGen, subject to approval of the assembly in a one week (OOC: 36-hour) public vote. The GenSec serves at the SecGen's pleasure, and may be replaced by the GenSec's home nation.

The GS shall be the head of the Secretariat, which shall be based in the IDU capital, unless the assembly sees fit to move it elsewhere.

Section Two: Legislation

Legislation may be proposed by any member nation, and will be thrown into the Legislation Bin. It may then receive seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, sevenths, eighths, ninths, tenths, elevenths, twelfths, thirteenths, fourteenths, fifteenths, sixteenths, seventeenths, eighteenths, nineteenths, twentieths, twenty-firsts, etc. Legislation must receive a second and a third to be considered by the assembly (at the SG's descretion), and, in the event that legislation receives a fifth, it will automatically come up for debate with the next batch of legislation.

Debate shall follow normal parliamentary procedure, which means motions are worth their weight in orange juice. Get a book on it, or, better yet, just argue about it.

Debates and votes shall be long enough to get enough opinions and votes, preferably around 48-72 hours.

Modifications to the rules of debate, voting, or parliamentary process will require a 55% majority vote, with abstentions counting as .55.

Nonbinding bills, forming of sub-organizations or -treaties, or decisions not forcing actual mandates upon nations will require a 50% majority vote. Bills with penalties for noncompliance will require a 55% majority, with abstentions counting as .55. Bills with the penalty for noncompliance being expulsion from the assembly will require a 2/3 majority vote, with abstentions counting as 2/3.

Section Three: Miscellaneous

All shall acknowledge that Friedman spelled "miscellaneous" right on his first try.

Amendments to the charter shall require a 60% majority vote, with abstentions counting as .6.[/quote]

OOC edit: changed acronyms

[Grosseschnauzer]

Gen Sec and Sec Gen might be better, less chance of confusion if a future nation comes along with the ititials SG.

Round up the OOC times to 24 hour segments, since that 36 hour thing might just be the one day someone doesn't log into the forum.

[Eisophca]

I changed the acronyms, because that's just semantics.

M.F.

OOC: There should be more discussion on the times.

[Grosseschnauzer]

And every nation shown at nationstates to be a member of the IDU can participate, right?

[Baranxtu]

Aimala Boulea stood up, with a determined and somewhat angry look on her face.
"How dare you using such inappropriate language? Just look - he or she!? 'tis outrageous! Why does 'he' get mentioned first? Do you Ceoranans think that men deserve to be mentioned first?"

Nibana chimed in.
"And what about the pangendered? And the genderqueer? How can you exclude them by using gender-specific pronouns"

Laporj?? was the third to speak:
"Hey, and don't forget about the transspecied, who may not want to be talked about in the human concepts of sex and gender!"

Everyone turns to give her a look that said "Now, you're ridiculous!".

Then, the BCO delegation starts to chant. "Singular they! Singular they! Singular they!"

[Embolalia]

Arnold James stands up and begins responding to the previous comment:

I am somewhat of a gramamamarian... grmama.. grermaman... grama....

An aide whispers in his ear

Ah, yes, grammarian. I am a grammarian, and I think that he or she is fine. I don't think there is any need to change it. We all know that's what it means. But if it makes the people of Baranxtu more comfortable, we could just use the name of the position to which we are referring, or, After a small pause, or we could use the singular 'they.'

[Quintessence of Dust]

We would like to propose the following amendments to the draft document presented by the Congressional Republic of Ceorana:

We would propose calling the organization something more representative of the region, such as the International Democratic League, or alternatively the [Klouch, or IDU, or whatever this treaty will finally be called] Treaty Organization.

For the preamble, we would propose:
Quote: The State Parties to this Convention, united in support of the principles of freedom, equality, democracy and stability, committed to the preservation of peace, the promotion of responsible government and the rule of law, and fostering of mutually beneficial means of cooperation, and motivated by a desire to increase active participation in the formation of international law and collaboration in international projects, do hereby convene this Convention on Increased Regional Cooperation, and do agree to its terms.[/quote]

We would then suggest a general substantive opening article:

Quote: The [name] is hereby formed. Its aims shall be the promotion of international cooperation within the International Democratic Union, the protection of its members assets, and the formation of international law in fields of major import. It shall respect the sovereignty of its members. Membership shall be open and voluntary. This document shall serve as its Charter.[/quote]

Then something on membership:

Quote: Membership shall be open to any nation within the International Democratic Union, provided they are in compliance with their general regional obligations. No existing member may veto the entry of any new member, but a vote on membership may be called by any member, with a straight majority of voting members of a quorum of a majority of members required to reject an application. Members may renounce their membership at any point, and having renounced membership previously shall not be held against any nation in reapplication.[/quote]

More contentiously, we'd suggest adding to the above:

Quote: Members are strongly urged to grant their citizens the right to vote on entry to, status in and departure from the organization.[/quote]

Then an article forming the Secretariat and Council:

Quote: For the purposes of adopting laws and treaties proposed within the organization, and deciding on matters of protocol and operation, a Council shall be formed. Each member shall have one vote, which they are urged to deliver with due regard for the democratic will of their citizens, with the options to support, abstain on or oppose a measure. Each member's vote shall have equal weight. Members' representatives will be entitled to explain their vote and make statements to the Council. Observers shall be entitled to make statements to the Council where permitted by the Chair.

For the purposes of devising, overseeing and enforcing laws and treaties adopted by this organization, facilitating general international communication, and administrating this Convention, a Secretariat shall be formed, to be based at [the IDU capital?] Members are strongly encouraged to attach a permament envoy to the Secretariat.[/quote]

Then, to modify the Ceoranan codification of the legal framework, we would propose the Secretary-General be renamed the Chair. Other suggestions would be that the Chair be a paid position (so as to prevent corruption), that the term of office be lengthened significantly (OOCly: doing it every month will be a chore), that only one reelection be permitted, and that the Council be able to remove the Chair on the basis of 2/3 majority of voting members of a quorum of 2/3 members.

To add to the confusion, we would suggest the General Secretary be renamed the Secretary General, and it be made clear that their job is to run the Secretariat, rather than to have any partisan role.

We agree that Legislation should require a third, but think the long list preceeding that should be struck. We do not understand the requirement concerning a fifth, which we feel should be struck.

Otherwise, we feel the use of the phrasing "[proportion] of voting members of a quorum of [proportion]" may be helpful.

My final statement flies in the face of all that I have just said: if this is to promote regional cooperation, it should be a simple and accessible document. We hope others less long-winded than my staff are able to muddle together something suitably succinct.

-- Secretary of State James Dwight

[Eisophca]

I'm sorry, Mr. Dwight, but I simply cannot understand what in yo's name you're trying to amend. My translator assures me it says exactly the same thing, just that everyone would need a translator from Legalese to their national language to read it. I mean, what the yo are you talking about, yo, besides some trivial technicalities, yo?

[Quintessence of Dust]

I see. So proposing amendments to a document so caught up in trying to be funny that it omits to actually found the council it then sets out entirely incomprehensible rules for in an effort to stimulate some discussion is "legalese". Perhaps we've misjudged the nature of this region.

-- Secretary of State James Dwight

[Eisophca]

Me? Trying to be funny? No, yo, sir! The paper was simply written in the yo-worthy Ceoranan dialect of English! You are welcome to provide a translation for those who do not speak it (in fact, when my translator gets back from his extended coffee break, he might do it himself), but please, do not degrade our national language, yo!

[Eisophca]

OOC: I'll be taking a bit of a break from this game for the weekend, cooling off from a UN debate in addition to OOC commitments. Hence, I won't be able to respond to any comments about the charter, so don't wait for them.

[Domnonia]

I would like to second the amendments proposed by the Quintessence of Dust delegacy. The Ceoranan proposal is an excellent base for a possible organizational framework. While highly entertaining, we agree that it should be cleaned up so as to be more accessible and present a clear structure with which we can easily invoke.

[Bears Armed]

The doors open, and a large, white-furred Ursine -- who is wearing a loose robe -- enters the room.

"Greetings," he says to the assembled national representatives. "My name is Siggurr Thuleann, and I am sent here by the Council of Clans of Bears Armed to join in these talks. We are following your discussions so far, and have two important changes that we would like to see made in the proposed charter before we can sign it. Firstly, the list of dislikes in the Preamble should be modified to exclude apple-juice but include soft cheeses; and secondly, there should be a clear commitment to the idea that rights are for all sapient beings rather than just for Humans..."

[Nimali]

*Leisurely walks in*
Oh, i'm sorry, am i late? Anyway, i would like to introduce my self as a speaker for the Alliance etc,etc,etc...
to the point- the 4 leaders would like to join in on these talks and the resulting orgaisation

*finds a place to sit, and sits*

[boricuastan]

Fellow IDU partners in crime, I apologize for my absence from most of this very productive discussion on regional governance. Actually I have been here; it's just that I fell asleep during that Stolidian guy's speech. But I'm awake now, I assure you, and am empowered to speak with full authority for of the completely independent and sovereign nation (and not at all a Kennyite puppet) of Boricuastan.

I have reviewed the text of the proposed charter, and I must say it is wanting for one certain thing: a statement of purpose. What's the point of establishing this organization? To foster further intraregional cooperation through certain diplomatic, economic and defense initiatives; to establish regional policies on dealings with the greater international community; to force nations to change their laws for the greater regional good through gnomish legislative sabotage (like in the NSUN); to get drunk off our asses and play ping-pong? At some point this charter must state the reasons for why this charter's being established, and something decidedly beyond "we hate killing, bad decisions, killing, killing, killing, killing, killing, and 30%-off coupons, yo!"

Anyway, that's what I got. Do with it as you will. I'm out.

On behalf of the Totally Frickin' Awesome Pimpin' Bad-ass Sovereign Independent Completely non-Puppeteered Rogue State of Boricuastan:

Tigre Soto
Some Guy

[OOC: the various OOC notes, e.g. "two-week (OOC: 3-day) public vote," are a bit awkward. Can we just say "3-day public vote," without the tags, and pretend it's IC? There are still some places in the document where it says SG and GS. Also, can someone help me understand the "abstentions counting for .5" stuff?]

[Embolalia]

I would like to read a message sent to me by the leader of one of the nations of the Commonwealth, which has just recently joined the IDU:

Quote: The Democratic Republic of Brechenlass, which has just recently joined the International Democratic Union, would like to participate in this body upon its creation. Unfortunately, we are not prepared to send a diplomat to represent us at this time. Until we can send a representative, we will instate Arnold James, the current representative of Kedalfax, as our representative.[/quote]