11-23-2009, 10:26 AM
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM However, during the brief period when he was an active member of this region, we agreed to change the border between these two lands from the line that the regional map shows and I'd really like to keep that revised arrangement. Here's a link to my map of the 'Northlands', showing it.
BA.N 01 General Full
As you can see, the Bears have gained (or, in IC terms, "always" owned) a wedge of land extending southwards along the eastern border of 'Old Ceorana' but don't occupy the easternmost [& smallest] of the three "lobes" of land that the official map would give them... and I've added a peninsula extending northwards, and a lot of islands, which Domnonia had agreed could be added to the regional map but which he didn't actually get around to incorporating therein.
Are these changes in the border okay as far as you are concerned?
[/quote]
They look good to me!
unglasses:
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMEDIT (08th November): We'd also agreed that the border was mostly mountainous: There are (an uncertain number of) passes that allow passage south out of 'F', at least in Summer, and my area labelled 'E.M.' is all mountains -- although fairly low, eroded-down ones like the USA's Appalachians rather than anything newer -- that extend into 'B.F' too although the easternmost end of the border there is a river instead. A mystical border excluded outsiders from our lands until a few years ago... [/quote]
Hmmm...I would prefer the majority of our border to be a series of high plateaus, perhaps with a low mountain ranges slightly further inside your own borders if you like. The summer passes thing works though.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM According to the region's main NSwiki article the region extends from about 20 degrees N to about 55 degrees N... The bits that I've added to the north of the Bears might extend this by another 05 degrees, at the most, so if that the "polar" landmass is significantly smaller than RL Antarctica -- which I think it should be -- then any "land-bridge" or ice-shelf across which your people migrated as you say would have had to have been verrry long... unless, perhaps, it actually bridged the gap between this region and a continent in some 'alternative' Reality? We've generally accepted the theory that NS has a 'Multiverse'-type structure, at least in this region, so that would work okay unless you don't like the idea.[/quote]
I'm not entirely adverse to it (I did come from a dying RP region, so its not entirely unthinkable) though the point was that the polar mass was at one time much much larger than its current state (large enough to have been considered its own continent at one point) such that the northern plate shift would not have been excessively extreme (extreme still but not excessively so) to move to its current position. The likelihood would then be that the plate shift resulted in the destruction of much of the northern ice shelf (and likely numerous icebergs in the northern seas.) As I said, I'm not completely adverse to the arrival from an alternate reality idea, but would prefer to keep things as "natural science" as possible. Besides, it would lead to much more interesting history with the Sidh Ohn migrating through early Bear Lands and so forth, rather than just spacia-temporialy displacing the previous nation.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM(I really don't like the idea that, as you suggested, there was a fairly "sudden" geological upheaval just after your arrival, due to the continents colliding, because that would seem to imply a ridiculously fast rate of 'contiental drift': If you really want it to have happened, then try to convince me...) [/quote]
Not a fan of catastrophic geo-history theory I take it? Bear
in mind that in the terms I was discussing the Sidh Ohn are not "new" to the region, only the Nation as it currently exists is. So you have a nomadic people that, despite learning everything they can, spend centuries if not millenia maintaining an ancient form of existence with only sporadic (usually violent or trading based) interactions with the developing nations that would eventually form the IDU. The nation would only have "officially" formed when driven from every other place, they stormed the lands ruled by Frontenax and established their own nation. So, while their cultural memory may include the "geologic upheaval", it does not mean that it would have occured in recent or even "IDU" history but rather at some point in the regions "mythic" past. As such, while the continental drift would have been relatively rapid by normal geologic standards, it likely would actually have taken centuries if not a millenia to complete.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM'Chromatic crows' aren't found only in Bears Armed, they're actually present in most of the region's lands -- including many that are currently "failed nations" -- as was agreed by most of the region's active players back when I invented them: The whole reason for their existence, at the OOC level, is to give the IDU as a whole at least one 'unique' species that doesn't exist at all in RL but that is [extremely] widely endemic here. However the basal 'Corvid' stock from which they evolved would almost certainly have had to immigrate from somewhere else, considering the RL Crow family's origins, so maybe they came through the same "weak point" between Realities that your people subsequently (if you accept my theory) utilised, or maybe your Ice Crows are actually descended from a stock of Chromatic Corws that had taken that same route in the opposite direction -- from the IDU to wherever your people previously lived -- during the moderately distant past and the modern species then arrived here at about the same time as your people?[/quote]
I find it much more likely that the "Ice Crow" is simply a case of isolated benign mutation spread throughout the breeding stock. Simply put, the land that Sidh Ohn inhabits it geologically isolated enough (mainly by low mountains and high plateaus) that the Chromatic Crows simply developed their own strain through basic natural selection. A silvery to bluish sheen is much more useful to survival in Sidh Ohn, than any other color except perhaps dark green, but hey they can't have it all right?
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMIncidentally, roughly when did your people arrive in their present home? [/quote]
In the northern IDU? The current theory (see above) is that occured as described in the continent's pre-history. In their current form as a regional nation? Realistically (ie. the "invasion" began), whenever it was I arrived on the forums (not sure how that equates in terms of regional years.) Politically, when Frontenax became inactive.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMFauna of the North
This isn't by any means a complete list, and of course you don't have to accept any of the species that I mention, but anyway_
Frontenax had the Grizzly Bear as his national animal and before vanishing he agreed that an Ursine species which I'd invented probably also extended into part of his lands: The 'Mountain Bear' (or 'Varying Bear', or 'Blue Bear'...) is a relatively lightly-built species that, instead of hibernating, normally changes its fur's colour seasonally for better camouflage... and also has a version that stays 'blue' all year, just as the Arctic Fox does. It's mainly found inland (because Polar Bears, which are significantly larger, monopolise the richer food resources along the coast) and in winter it's primarily a hunter/scavenger rather than an omnivore. Whether any of the Bears on your side of the border are sapient (and possibly anthropomorphic, too) is, of course, entirely up to you...
The clan at the south-west of the Bears' 'Northlands', marked on the map to which I've linked in this post as 'F'' which stands for either 'Five Lakes' or 'Forest Lakes', includes a group that herds semi-domesticated Moose and we've also got at least one other sort of Deer thereabouts... and there are definitely Reindeer/Caribou up north, especially along the northwards-pointing peninsula ('N.C') that I've added to the map near the eastern end of the Bears' Northlands , too.
How do you feel about the Woolly Rhinoceros, which is a grazer? I'm thinking of having a surviving (but "dwarfed") stock of thsi in 'B.F' & possibly elsewhere, in which case it could plausibly have relatives on your side of the border too...[/quote]
I see no problem with any of this. As said before, the Auroch also exists in Sidh Ohn, and given that they were driven to the continent (by whatever means we eventually agree on) it is possible some may have strayed into Bear-lands as well if you like. There is also the Sidh Ohn "Brother-Wolf" (to be described in detail at a later date) but the Ohn keep such a tight cultural attachement with them that it is unlikely they have spread beyond Sidh Ohn lands. As I said before, sadly, the Arctic Wolf is extinct in Sidh Ohn due to (I assume) an already low population from hunting by the people of Frontenax, and competition and outbreeding by the Sidh Ohn Brother-Wolves.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMIn the sea, there are Sea-Cows (possibly the species known in RL as Steller's, possibly a different -- but very similar-- one instead) and -- at least in the waters between the Bears' eastern [mainland] coasts and the islands that one clan inhabits even further out to the east of these ('I.R'] there are Sea Otters. [/quote]
Sounds good. I'll be looking into the sea life of Sidh Ohn when I get the chance.
As to anthropomorphism. The only semi-examples of it occur in the protectorate of Tharnwoad, which I'll get into later in a dedicated thread.
BA.N 01 General Full
As you can see, the Bears have gained (or, in IC terms, "always" owned) a wedge of land extending southwards along the eastern border of 'Old Ceorana' but don't occupy the easternmost [& smallest] of the three "lobes" of land that the official map would give them... and I've added a peninsula extending northwards, and a lot of islands, which Domnonia had agreed could be added to the regional map but which he didn't actually get around to incorporating therein.
Are these changes in the border okay as far as you are concerned?
[/quote]
They look good to me!
unglasses:Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMEDIT (08th November): We'd also agreed that the border was mostly mountainous: There are (an uncertain number of) passes that allow passage south out of 'F', at least in Summer, and my area labelled 'E.M.' is all mountains -- although fairly low, eroded-down ones like the USA's Appalachians rather than anything newer -- that extend into 'B.F' too although the easternmost end of the border there is a river instead. A mystical border excluded outsiders from our lands until a few years ago... [/quote]
Hmmm...I would prefer the majority of our border to be a series of high plateaus, perhaps with a low mountain ranges slightly further inside your own borders if you like. The summer passes thing works though.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM According to the region's main NSwiki article the region extends from about 20 degrees N to about 55 degrees N... The bits that I've added to the north of the Bears might extend this by another 05 degrees, at the most, so if that the "polar" landmass is significantly smaller than RL Antarctica -- which I think it should be -- then any "land-bridge" or ice-shelf across which your people migrated as you say would have had to have been verrry long... unless, perhaps, it actually bridged the gap between this region and a continent in some 'alternative' Reality? We've generally accepted the theory that NS has a 'Multiverse'-type structure, at least in this region, so that would work okay unless you don't like the idea.[/quote]
I'm not entirely adverse to it (I did come from a dying RP region, so its not entirely unthinkable) though the point was that the polar mass was at one time much much larger than its current state (large enough to have been considered its own continent at one point) such that the northern plate shift would not have been excessively extreme (extreme still but not excessively so) to move to its current position. The likelihood would then be that the plate shift resulted in the destruction of much of the northern ice shelf (and likely numerous icebergs in the northern seas.) As I said, I'm not completely adverse to the arrival from an alternate reality idea, but would prefer to keep things as "natural science" as possible. Besides, it would lead to much more interesting history with the Sidh Ohn migrating through early Bear Lands and so forth, rather than just spacia-temporialy displacing the previous nation.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM(I really don't like the idea that, as you suggested, there was a fairly "sudden" geological upheaval just after your arrival, due to the continents colliding, because that would seem to imply a ridiculously fast rate of 'contiental drift': If you really want it to have happened, then try to convince me...) [/quote]
Not a fan of catastrophic geo-history theory I take it? Bear
in mind that in the terms I was discussing the Sidh Ohn are not "new" to the region, only the Nation as it currently exists is. So you have a nomadic people that, despite learning everything they can, spend centuries if not millenia maintaining an ancient form of existence with only sporadic (usually violent or trading based) interactions with the developing nations that would eventually form the IDU. The nation would only have "officially" formed when driven from every other place, they stormed the lands ruled by Frontenax and established their own nation. So, while their cultural memory may include the "geologic upheaval", it does not mean that it would have occured in recent or even "IDU" history but rather at some point in the regions "mythic" past. As such, while the continental drift would have been relatively rapid by normal geologic standards, it likely would actually have taken centuries if not a millenia to complete.Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM'Chromatic crows' aren't found only in Bears Armed, they're actually present in most of the region's lands -- including many that are currently "failed nations" -- as was agreed by most of the region's active players back when I invented them: The whole reason for their existence, at the OOC level, is to give the IDU as a whole at least one 'unique' species that doesn't exist at all in RL but that is [extremely] widely endemic here. However the basal 'Corvid' stock from which they evolved would almost certainly have had to immigrate from somewhere else, considering the RL Crow family's origins, so maybe they came through the same "weak point" between Realities that your people subsequently (if you accept my theory) utilised, or maybe your Ice Crows are actually descended from a stock of Chromatic Corws that had taken that same route in the opposite direction -- from the IDU to wherever your people previously lived -- during the moderately distant past and the modern species then arrived here at about the same time as your people?[/quote]
I find it much more likely that the "Ice Crow" is simply a case of isolated benign mutation spread throughout the breeding stock. Simply put, the land that Sidh Ohn inhabits it geologically isolated enough (mainly by low mountains and high plateaus) that the Chromatic Crows simply developed their own strain through basic natural selection. A silvery to bluish sheen is much more useful to survival in Sidh Ohn, than any other color except perhaps dark green, but hey they can't have it all right?
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMIncidentally, roughly when did your people arrive in their present home? [/quote]
In the northern IDU? The current theory (see above) is that occured as described in the continent's pre-history. In their current form as a regional nation? Realistically (ie. the "invasion" began), whenever it was I arrived on the forums (not sure how that equates in terms of regional years.) Politically, when Frontenax became inactive.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMFauna of the North
This isn't by any means a complete list, and of course you don't have to accept any of the species that I mention, but anyway_
Frontenax had the Grizzly Bear as his national animal and before vanishing he agreed that an Ursine species which I'd invented probably also extended into part of his lands: The 'Mountain Bear' (or 'Varying Bear', or 'Blue Bear'...) is a relatively lightly-built species that, instead of hibernating, normally changes its fur's colour seasonally for better camouflage... and also has a version that stays 'blue' all year, just as the Arctic Fox does. It's mainly found inland (because Polar Bears, which are significantly larger, monopolise the richer food resources along the coast) and in winter it's primarily a hunter/scavenger rather than an omnivore. Whether any of the Bears on your side of the border are sapient (and possibly anthropomorphic, too) is, of course, entirely up to you...
The clan at the south-west of the Bears' 'Northlands', marked on the map to which I've linked in this post as 'F'' which stands for either 'Five Lakes' or 'Forest Lakes', includes a group that herds semi-domesticated Moose and we've also got at least one other sort of Deer thereabouts... and there are definitely Reindeer/Caribou up north, especially along the northwards-pointing peninsula ('N.C') that I've added to the map near the eastern end of the Bears' Northlands , too.
How do you feel about the Woolly Rhinoceros, which is a grazer? I'm thinking of having a surviving (but "dwarfed") stock of thsi in 'B.F' & possibly elsewhere, in which case it could plausibly have relatives on your side of the border too...[/quote]
I see no problem with any of this. As said before, the Auroch also exists in Sidh Ohn, and given that they were driven to the continent (by whatever means we eventually agree on) it is possible some may have strayed into Bear-lands as well if you like. There is also the Sidh Ohn "Brother-Wolf" (to be described in detail at a later date) but the Ohn keep such a tight cultural attachement with them that it is unlikely they have spread beyond Sidh Ohn lands. As I said before, sadly, the Arctic Wolf is extinct in Sidh Ohn due to (I assume) an already low population from hunting by the people of Frontenax, and competition and outbreeding by the Sidh Ohn Brother-Wolves.
Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMIn the sea, there are Sea-Cows (possibly the species known in RL as Steller's, possibly a different -- but very similar-- one instead) and -- at least in the waters between the Bears' eastern [mainland] coasts and the islands that one clan inhabits even further out to the east of these ('I.R'] there are Sea Otters. [/quote]
Sounds good. I'll be looking into the sea life of Sidh Ohn when I get the chance.
As to anthropomorphism. The only semi-examples of it occur in the protectorate of Tharnwoad, which I'll get into later in a dedicated thread.