[Bears Armed]

The faunas and floras that have been described for various parts of this region so far generally appear quite similar, overall, to ones that can also be found in various parts of the ?RL? Earth?s continents of Europe and North America, although those that have been described for parts of our ?Southern Continent? ? and for certain of the more southerly areas on the ?Northern Continent?, such as the nation of Malabra, too ? are rather more ?exotic? in composition.
Why?

The continents and islands that collectively comprise this region are apparently separated by significant expanses of ocean from any other land-masses, although the maps of the Bears suggest knowledge of one further continent ? or, at least, a very large island ? that covers part of the Arctic (subject to approval by the rest of you, of course?) as well, and considering the relatively slow rates of movement that are involved in the process of ?Continental Drift ?this situation has presumably applied for some considerable time? perhaps even since the break-up of the world?s former supercontinent towards the end of the Mesozoic Era.

We could assume that the native faunas and floras of our region were all ? with the exception of those species that were ?obviously? brought here by Humans or other sapients during the last few millennia ? derived solely from stocks that were already present in the equivalents of the lands (& seas) concerned when this region as such became distinct from whatever former super-continents were involved, having evolved in parallel to those in the RL continents that I have already named. This, however, would have required what I myself would consider to have been an unbelievably high level of coincidence, especially as many of the stocks that exist in those RL continents today (especially amongst the Mammals and birds, which tend to be the most conspicuous elements of most lands? faunas) actually underwent significant stages of their evolutionary histories on other continents instead before migrating into those lands? which the apparently long period of geographical isolation that our own region has undergone would have made extremely improbable here?

Alternatively, we could assume that the native faunas and floras of our region were all ? with the exception of those species that were ?obviously? brought here by Humans or other sapients during the last few millennia ? derived solely from stocks that have all migrated here ? through the wonders of ?Fractal Reality? ? after their species had evolved to their present states within the appropriate parts of the RL Earth. This, however, would raise the question of what lived here before their arrival, and what happened to it? One might argue that as the ?immigrant? species would have evolved in an environment where more competition was possible than would have been the case here they were therefore possessed of greater ?vigour? than the native life-forms, which they therefore were able to displace completely? although in my opinion the fact that the ?native? species would have evolved to cope with local conditions that might not have been exactly the same as those from which the ?immigrant? stocks arrived might well have helped to balance that factor (whose hypothetical application in some RL situations, such as the ?Great Faunal Interchange? that occurred when the two Americas finally came into contact with each other a few million years ago, is no longer considered credible as widely as was formerly the case?) and thus have helped some of the ?native? forms to out-compete their newly-arrived rivals and survive?

(The rather ?patchwork? patterns of distribution that the ?rival? ?European? and ?North American? faunas and floras currently enjoy within the region would certainly suggest that at least some areas acquired the species concerned from other ?Realities?, rather than that all of those species spread purely through ?normal? processes of range-extension that took place solely within the region.)

The most likely situation, in my opinion, is that the current faunas and floras are actually a mixture of stocks that have evolved ?locally? since the region became geographically distinct, stocks that have undergone some evolution here since their ancestral species arrived from RL Earth (or elsewhere) in the distant past, and species that only made the transition hence after they had evolved into their current states. Those stocks that have been here for longest would obviously have had the most opportunity to evolve differently from their closest RL counterparts...

[Bears Armed]

The size of our region, along with its latitudinal range (which I was told in the past, by somebody who should know, extends approximately from just inside the Tropics to a bit outside of the Arctic Circle: c.20-55 degreees North?) and the shapes & sizes of the various land-masses involved, should have certain effects on its ecosystems if the same ?natural laws? that apply in RL work normally here as well.

Firstly, considering the combination of those geographical details with the fact that there are apparently no other continents situated very close to ours to affect the matter, I?m fairly sure that we should have a set of ocean currents that basically flow clockwise all of the way around the ?outer? edges of main land-masses? and there should probably be an east-to-west current through the sea that separates our two main continents, too. This will obviously affect local temperatures to some extent, especially in coastal areas, leading to warmer conditions up the western coasts and cooler conditions down the eastern ones than latitude alone would provide. (The ?tropical? warmth that seems to exist in at least parts of Malabra, and presumably also within the former nation that had an Australian fauna as well, might be due either to a warm current that arrives in our region ? from whichever other one is located to our east ? or to leakage from some other ?Reality?) This means that our northernmost lands would have climates closer to those of such RL countries as Norway or Patagonia than to that of Siberia: However the cold current that descends from the Arctic to the east of that would cool northern parts of Keeslandia and Domnonia to some extent, thus helping to explain the [recorded] presence of Polar Bears in those lands.
EDIT (07th November): The cold current down the eastern coast probably fades out somewhere just south of Gnejs (which had an ecosystem like that of RL Sweden when last we discussed such matters...), as it sinks below the (less dense) warmer waters of those latitudes...

If there is an area of solid land covering the area around the [geographical] North Pole as the Bears think is the case, and if this is a small continent or very large island in its own right rather than just the northern tip of some larger continent that extends for a considerable distance into the hemisphere that lies across the Pole from us, then that should probably be surrounded by a clockwise ring of currents too and these would isolate it to some extent from conditions further south which means that it would be significantly colder than the RL Earth?s ?Arctic Sea? although (because of its smaller size) not quite as cold as ?Antarctica?. The clash between the westward-flowing current along its southern edge and the eastward-flowing current along our northern edge would tend to lead to very turbulent conditions in the intervening seas, which certainly fits well with what the Bears have observed there.

Secondly, of course, the combined influences of these conditions and our region?s geomorphology on local climates within the region would have a considerable influence on the types of ecosystem present? or, at least, this would be the case if it weren?t for ?leakages? from outside our own reality.

Thirdly, the combination of those climatic factors with our region?s relatively small size and its apparent isolation (by wide belts of ocean) from other continents would greatly reduce the scope for Birds to migrate. For example, on the RL Earth many of the avian species that occur within the two continents ecologically most similar to ours (i.e. Europe and North America) migrate south for the Winter, into or even beyond the Tropics, to escape seasonal food shortages as well as the cold: As we don?t have anything close to such wide expanses of suitable territories available for them to visit at that time of year we would presumably have both a narrower range of species present (as far as RL North America is concerned, approximately 5 species out of every 6 over-winter elsewhere?) and smaller populations for some of the species that we do have. The main deficit would be in Songbirds, a few other (smaller) groups such as Cuckoos and Swifts, and the predators that would otherwise specialise in feeding on those.
Also, many of the species of Geese ? and some species of other water-birds, of various types, too ? fly north from the ?temperate? lands during the Summer in order to use sections of the northern Tundra as breeding sites, exploiting the local shortage of resident predators as well as the new growth in the local flora (which there are relatively few resident herbivores to exploit, too) when the ?midnight sun? helps to make up for the shortness of the growing season, and as our lands don?t extend far enough north to include much such Tundra we presumably have a relative shortage of those species as well.

If our region?s geographical isolation from any other continents that exist on our world has persisted for very long time then obviously that will have limited the scope for any immigrations by stocks of animals (or plants) that evolved on those other continents but that weren?t capable of crossing wide expanses of ocean. On the ?animal? side, this would basically have limited immigration to maritime mammals, seabirds and those other types of birds that are actually capable of crossing wide expanses of open water (e.g. some ?shorebirds?, and some waterfowl?), possibly maritime reptiles such as turtles or crocodilians, maritime invertebrates, and any invertebrates that were able to hitch a ride with members of the vertebrate groups concerned . (I don?t know as much about plants, so I?ll leave them for somebody else to consider? at least for now.)

The way in which ?continental drift? has affected our region?s lands in the past, along with any changes in the overall global climate during those eons, will obviously have affected the region?s ecological history too. Do any of you possess any ?definite? information about these factors?


The native faunas in various parts of RL Earth suffered 'extinction events' that selectively targeted the larger species, at differing dates during the last 100'000 years or so, and as the dates involved tended to coincide with the arrival of 'modern' humans (& their dogs, & other accompanying species) in those lands there is a prominent school of though that suggests the over-hunting of animals that were unuaccustomed to (and therefore less wary about) a Human presence was probably a major factor involved in this. One piece of supporting evidence is the fact that in the case of North America the 'megafauna' species that survived were almost all ones that were themselves fairly recent immigrants from the lands across the Bering land-bridge where humans had already been active for longer...
So, do you think that maybe our region also went through such a stage? That would help to explain why we have so many of the species of larger animals that could have arrived from one or more of the more "Earthlike" realities' versions of Europe, Asia and North America at relatively recent dates, and so few 'endemic' species of large animals, despite the fact that there has presumably been at least some evolution from native or earlier-immigrant stocks occurring here. It would also allow for the presence of some species of large animals that don't also exist in RL, as survivors of the earlier "indigenous" fauna, and would probably also mean that most species of small animals present aren't the same as the ones occupying equivalent niches in the relevant RL ecosystems.
Your opinions?

[lursan]

wow, a lot of test, really interesting, so, you want to create like a ecological history of the region before the humans arrival?

[Jade Tigers]

If I may add to this....

From our experience, the Sidh Ohn would have to agree with your hypothesis concerning the ocean currents. As you've commented, the western nations tend to exhibit warmer climates, with the eastern nations experiencing varying degrees of cold to semi-tundra like conditions. Of particular interest to me is the difference between your own lands (cold but not frozen over) and Sidh Ohn (near-tundra conditions) given that our lands lie on your southern border. This has caused many theories among us but is easily explained by our topographies and the clockwise ocean currents the region seems to experience. ie. Sidh Ohn has a topography that largely slopes down the farther east you go, slopes gently up the farther west and south you go, while remaining fairly flat to the northern border. This likely prevents the warmest air currents from the south and west from reaching us, while admitting the colder air from the the eastern ocean and, to a lesser extent, from your own northern lands. So, we have a situation, where the lands of the bears have a relatively open air flow which allows greater temperature variations, which while still very cold, are not arctic, while Sidh Ohn is essentially a bowl of cold air with little temperature variation, resulting in a lower average annual temperature, and thus our near-tundra conditions.

Likewise, we know for a fact that their is at the very least a northern ice shelf that was once much larger as that is how our own people arrived on the continent; ie. over an ice bridge that once connected it with this continent in the north.

This observation leads us to the topic of the highly varied flora and fauna in the region. It is our belief that the two main continents that make up the region are likely sitting on entirely different plates. As stated, our northern continent was once in contact with a northerly ice shelf (whether this was an ice covered land mass or just ice is another question that we are not entirely sure of, though we can say that we migrated from a continent on the other side of it.) Our own migration took place due to a massive geologic upheaval. We also have records indicating that a similar upheaval occurring on the region's northern continent in the wake of our arrival which prevented us from escaping to the north again. This has led us to theorise, that within cultural memory, the plates that the northern and southern continents rest on moved near each other from arctic and tropic climes respectively, until arriving in there current, apparently stabalised locations. So most of the apparent disparity in the flora and fauna of the region would be explained geologically. The remainder seems to have been introduced by immigrants (such as the Sidh Ohn Aurochs and Brother-Wolves.) Of the remaining native species some were driven to extinction (such as arctic wolves from hunting in Bears Armed and competition in Sidh Ohn) and others thriving in the new environment (such as the chromatic crows in Bears Armed and the apparently related ice crows in Sidh Ohn.)

We would be curious if any more of these findings could be verified.

[Bears Armed]

lursanNov 2 2009, 09:13 PM wow, a lot of test, really interesting, so, you want to create like a ecological history of the region before the humans arrival? [/quote]
Well, probably not a complete history, but hopefully enough of one so that when I'm designing species for my own nation I know what's reasonable: After all, it would be rather weird if my country had a load of unique species belonging to groups for which all of my neighbours simply have the RL-Earth versions, or if I only had the RL-Earth species as my examples of certain groups whereas my neighbours all had unique 'new' species instead...

[Bears Armed]

Sidh OhnNov 6 2009, 12:47 AM If I may add to this....

From our experience, the Sidh Ohn would have to agree with your hypothesis concerning the ocean currents. As you've commented, the western nations tend to exhibit warmer climates, with the eastern nations experiencing varying degrees of cold to semi-tundra like conditions. Of particular interest to me is the difference between your own lands (cold but not frozen over) and Sidh Ohn (near-tundra conditions) given that our lands lie on your southern border. This has caused many theories among us but is easily explained by our topographies and the clockwise ocean currents the region seems to experience. ie. Sidh Ohn has a topography that largely slopes down the farther east you go, slopes gently up the farther west and south you go, while remaining fairly flat to the northern border. This likely prevents the warmest air currents from the south and west from reaching us, while admitting the colder air from the the eastern ocean and, to a lesser extent, from your own northern lands. So, we have a situation, where the lands of the bears have a relatively open air flow which allows greater temperature variations, which while still very cold, are not arctic, while Sidh Ohn is essentially a bowl of cold air with little temperature variation, resulting in a lower average annual temperature, and thus our near-tundra conditions.[/quote]

So you're taking over the lands that were formerly held by -- and are shown on some versions of the regional map as belonging to -- 'Frontenax', are you? That seem basically okay, as far as I'm concerned anyway, because he wasn't here long enough to be somebody whose return I'd consider very likely: In fact it was the area that I meant to suggest to you, anyway...
However, during the brief period when he was an active member of this region, we agreed to change the border between these two lands from the line that the regional map shows and I'd really like to keep that revised arrangement. Here's a link to my map of the 'Northlands', showing it.

BA.N 01 General Full

As you can see, the Bears have gained (or, in IC terms, "always" owned) a wedge of land extending southwards along the eastern border of 'Old Ceorana' but don't occupy the easternmost [& smallest] of the three "lobes" of land that the official map would give them... and I've added a peninsula extending northwards, and a lot of islands, which Domnonia had agreed could be added to the regional map but which he didn't actually get around to incorporating therein.
Are these changes in the border okay as far as you are concerned?
EDIT (08th November): We'd also agreed that the border was mostly mountainous: There are (an uncertain number of) passes that allow passage south out of 'F', at least in Summer, and my area labelled 'E.M.' is all mountains -- although fairly low, eroded-down ones like the USA's Appalachians rather than anything newer -- that extend into 'B.F' too although the easternmost end of the border there is a river instead. A mystical border excluded outsiders from our lands until a few years ago...

Quote: Likewise, we know for a fact that their is at the very least a northern ice shelf that was once much larger as that is how our own people arrived on the continent; ie. over an ice bridge that once connected it with this continent in the north.

This observation leads us to the topic of the highly varied flora and fauna in the region. It is our belief that the two main continents that make up the region are likely sitting on entirely different plates. As stated, our northern continent was once in contact with a northerly ice shelf (whether this was an ice covered land mass or just ice is another question that we are not entirely sure of, though we can say that we migrated from a continent on the other side of it.) Our own migration took place due to a massive geologic upheaval. We also have records indicating that a similar upheaval occurring on the region's northern continent in the wake of our arrival which prevented us from escaping to the north again. This has led us to theorise, that within cultural memory, the plates that the northern and southern continents rest on moved near each other from arctic and tropic climes respectively, until arriving in there current, apparently stabalised locations. So most of the apparent disparity in the flora and fauna of the region would be explained geologically. The remainder seems to have been introduced by immigrants (such as the Sidh Ohn Aurochs and Brother-Wolves.) Of the remaining native species some were driven to extinction (such as arctic wolves from hunting in Bears Armed and competition in Sidh Ohn) and others thriving in the new environment (such as the chromatic crows in Bears Armed and the apparently related ice crows? in Sidh Ohn.)

We would be curious if any more of these findings could be verified. [/quote]

That's nicely written, but I'm afraid that my reply will (at least for now) have to be a purely OOC one:

Two plates rather than one seems better to me, too, and the line of mountains that forms an East-West 'spine' in the southern continent does look as though that land-mass is colliding with another plate to either the North or the South, tbut I think that we'd better leave the decision about how they're actually moving relative to each other for the players whose nations are actually located around & south of the intervening seas to make... because it would affect the probabilities of earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes in their lands.
As you can see from the map to which I've linked in this post, there's also a plate boundary that runs somewhere along the floor of the ocean out to the north/north-east/east of the Bears' northern lands... unless people seriously object to this.

According to the region's main NSwiki article the region extends from about 20 degrees N to about 55 degrees N... The bits that I've added to the north of the Bears might extend this by another 05 degrees, at the most, so if that the "polar" landmass is significantly smaller than RL Antarctica -- which I think it should be -- then any "land-bridge" or ice-shelf across which your people migrated as you say would have had to have been verrry long... unless, perhaps, it actually bridged the gap between this region and a continent in some 'alternative' Reality? We've generally accepted the theory that NS has a 'Multiverse'-type structure, at least in this region, so that would work okay unless you don't like the idea.
(I really don't like the idea that, as you suggested, there was a fairly "sudden" geological upheaval just after your arrival, due to the continents colliding, because that would seem to imply a ridiculously fast rate of 'contiental drift': If you really want it to have happened, then try to convince me...)
And of course using the 'Multiverse' concept could also explain how your nation has been in its present lands for quite a while even though our regional maps show a different country there in recent history: Some sort of "Reality Quake" would simply have switched the two nations over with each other between a pair of Earths...

'Chromatic crows' aren't found only in Bears Armed, they're actually present in most of the region's lands -- including many that are currently "failed nations" -- as was agreed by most of the region's active players back when I invented them: The whole reason for their existence, at the OOC level, is to give the IDU as a whole at least one 'unique' species that doesn't exist at all in RL but that is [extremely] widely endemic here. However the basal 'Corvid' stock from which they evolved would almost certainly have had to immigrate from somewhere else, considering the RL Crow family's origins, so maybe they came through the same "weak point" between Realities that your people subsequently (if you accept my theory) utilised, or maybe your Ice Crows are actually descended from a stock of Chromatic Corws that had taken that same route in the opposite direction -- from the IDU to wherever your people previously lived -- during the moderately distant past and the modern species then arrived here at about the same time as your people?

Incidentally, roughly when did your people arrive in their present home?


Fauna of the North

This isn't by any means a complete list, and of course you don't have to accept any of the species that I mention, but anyway_

Frontenax had the Grizzly Bear as his national animal and before vanishing he agreed that an Ursine species which I'd invented probably also extended into part of his lands: The 'Mountain Bear' (or 'Varying Bear', or 'Blue Bear'...) is a relatively lightly-built species that, instead of hibernating, normally changes its fur's colour seasonally for better camouflage... and also has a version that stays 'blue' all year, just as the Arctic Fox does. It's mainly found inland (because Polar Bears, which are significantly larger, monopolise the richer food resources along the coast) and in winter it's primarily a hunter/scavenger rather than an omnivore. Whether any of the Bears on your side of the border are sapient (and possibly anthropomorphic, too) is, of course, entirely up to you...

The clan at the south-west of the Bears' 'Northlands', marked on the map to which I've linked in this post as 'F'' which stands for either 'Five Lakes' or 'Forest Lakes', includes a group that herds semi-domesticated Moose and we've also got at least one other sort of Deer thereabouts... and there are definitely Reindeer/Caribou up north, especially along the northwards-pointing peninsula ('N.C') that I've added to the map near the eastern end of the Bears' Northlands , too.
How do you feel about the Woolly Rhinoceros, which is a grazer? I'm thinking of having a surviving (but "dwarfed") stock of thsi in 'B.F' & possibly elsewhere, in which case it could plausibly have relatives on your side of the border too...

In the sea, there are Sea-Cows (possibly the species known in RL as Steller's, possibly a different -- but very similar-- one instead) and -- at least in the waters between the Bears' eastern [mainland] coasts and the islands that one clan inhabits even further out to the east of these ('I.R'] there are Sea Otters.

[Jade Tigers]

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM However, during the brief period when he was an active member of this region, we agreed to change the border between these two lands from the line that the regional map shows and I'd really like to keep that revised arrangement. Here's a link to my map of the 'Northlands', showing it.

BA.N 01 General Full

As you can see, the Bears have gained (or, in IC terms, "always" owned) a wedge of land extending southwards along the eastern border of 'Old Ceorana' but don't occupy the easternmost  [& smallest] of the three "lobes" of land that the official map would give them... and I've added a peninsula extending northwards, and a lot of islands, which Domnonia had agreed could be added to the regional map but which he didn't actually get around to incorporating therein.
Are these changes in the border  okay as far as you are concerned?
[/quote]

They look good to me! unglasses:

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMEDIT (08th November): We'd also agreed that the border was mostly mountainous: There are (an uncertain number of) passes that allow passage south out of 'F', at least in Summer, and my area labelled 'E.M.' is all mountains -- although fairly low, eroded-down ones like the USA's Appalachians rather than anything newer -- that extend into 'B.F' too although the easternmost end of the border there is a river instead. A mystical border excluded outsiders from our lands until a few years ago... [/quote]

Hmmm...I would prefer the majority of our border to be a series of high plateaus, perhaps with a low mountain ranges slightly further inside your own borders if you like. The summer passes thing works though.

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM According to the region's main NSwiki article the region extends from about 20 degrees N to about 55 degrees N... The bits that I've added to the north of the Bears might extend this by another 05 degrees, at the most, so if that the "polar" landmass is significantly smaller than RL Antarctica -- which I think it should be -- then any "land-bridge" or ice-shelf across which your people migrated as you say would have had to have been verrry long... unless, perhaps, it actually bridged the gap between this region and a continent in some 'alternative' Reality? We've generally accepted the theory that NS has a 'Multiverse'-type structure, at least in this region, so that would work okay unless you don't like the idea.[/quote]

I'm not entirely adverse to it (I did come from a dying RP region, so its not entirely unthinkable) though the point was that the polar mass was at one time much much larger than its current state (large enough to have been considered its own continent at one point) such that the northern plate shift would not have been excessively extreme (extreme still but not excessively so) to move to its current position. The likelihood would then be that the plate shift resulted in the destruction of much of the northern ice shelf (and likely numerous icebergs in the northern seas.) As I said, I'm not completely adverse to the arrival from an alternate reality idea, but would prefer to keep things as "natural science" as possible. Besides, it would lead to much more interesting history with the Sidh Ohn migrating through early Bear Lands and so forth, rather than just spacia-temporialy displacing the previous nation.

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM(I really don't like the idea that, as you suggested, there was a fairly "sudden" geological upheaval just after your arrival, due to the continents colliding, because that would seem to imply a ridiculously fast rate of 'contiental drift': If you really want it to have happened, then try to convince me...)  [/quote]

Not a fan of catastrophic geo-history theory I take it? Bear in mind that in the terms I was discussing the Sidh Ohn are not "new" to the region, only the Nation as it currently exists is. So you have a nomadic people that, despite learning everything they can, spend centuries if not millenia maintaining an ancient form of existence with only sporadic (usually violent or trading based) interactions with the developing nations that would eventually form the IDU. The nation would only have "officially" formed when driven from every other place, they stormed the lands ruled by Frontenax and established their own nation. So, while their cultural memory may include the "geologic upheaval", it does not mean that it would have occured in recent or even "IDU" history but rather at some point in the regions "mythic" past. As such, while the continental drift would have been relatively rapid by normal geologic standards, it likely would actually have taken centuries if not a millenia to complete.

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PM'Chromatic crows' aren't found only in Bears Armed, they're actually present in most of the region's lands -- including many that are currently "failed nations" -- as was agreed by most of the region's active players back when I invented them: The whole reason for their existence, at the OOC level, is to give the IDU as a whole at least one 'unique' species that doesn't exist at all in RL but that is [extremely] widely endemic here. However the basal 'Corvid' stock from which they evolved would almost certainly have had to immigrate from somewhere else, considering the RL Crow family's origins, so maybe they came through the same "weak point" between Realities that your people subsequently (if you accept my theory) utilised, or maybe your Ice Crows are actually descended from a stock of Chromatic Corws that had taken that same route in the opposite direction -- from the IDU to wherever your people previously lived -- during the moderately distant past and the modern species then arrived here at about the same time as your people?[/quote]

I find it much more likely that the "Ice Crow" is simply a case of isolated benign mutation spread throughout the breeding stock. Simply put, the land that Sidh Ohn inhabits it geologically isolated enough (mainly by low mountains and high plateaus) that the Chromatic Crows simply developed their own strain through basic natural selection. A silvery to bluish sheen is much more useful to survival in Sidh Ohn, than any other color except perhaps dark green, but hey they can't have it all right?

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMIncidentally, roughly when did your people arrive in their present home? [/quote]

In the northern IDU? The current theory (see above) is that occured as described in the continent's pre-history. In their current form as a regional nation? Realistically (ie. the "invasion" began), whenever it was I arrived on the forums (not sure how that equates in terms of regional years.) Politically, when Frontenax became inactive.


Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMFauna of the North

This isn't by any means a complete list, and of course you don't have to accept any of the species that I mention, but anyway_

Frontenax had the Grizzly Bear as his national animal and before vanishing he agreed that an Ursine species which I'd invented probably also extended into part of his lands: The 'Mountain Bear' (or 'Varying Bear', or 'Blue Bear'...) is a relatively lightly-built species that, instead of hibernating, normally changes its fur's colour seasonally for better camouflage... and also has a version that stays 'blue' all year, just as the Arctic Fox does. It's mainly found inland (because Polar Bears, which are significantly larger, monopolise the richer food resources along the coast) and in winter it's primarily a hunter/scavenger rather than an omnivore. Whether any of the Bears on your side of the border are sapient (and possibly anthropomorphic, too)  is, of course, entirely up to you...

The clan at the south-west of the Bears' 'Northlands', marked on the map to which I've linked in this post as 'F'' which stands for either 'Five Lakes' or 'Forest Lakes', includes a group that herds semi-domesticated Moose and we've also got at least one other sort of Deer thereabouts... and there are definitely Reindeer/Caribou up north, especially along the northwards-pointing peninsula ('N.C') that I've added to the map near the eastern end of the Bears' Northlands , too. 
How do you feel about the Woolly Rhinoceros, which is a grazer? I'm thinking of having a surviving (but "dwarfed") stock of thsi in 'B.F' & possibly elsewhere, in which case it could plausibly have relatives on your side of the border too...[/quote]

I see no problem with any of this. As said before, the Auroch also exists in Sidh Ohn, and given that they were driven to the continent (by whatever means we eventually agree on) it is possible some may have strayed into Bear-lands as well if you like. There is also the Sidh Ohn "Brother-Wolf" (to be described in detail at a later date) but the Ohn keep such a tight cultural attachement with them that it is unlikely they have spread beyond Sidh Ohn lands. As I said before, sadly, the Arctic Wolf is extinct in Sidh Ohn due to (I assume) an already low population from hunting by the people of Frontenax, and competition and outbreeding by the Sidh Ohn Brother-Wolves.

Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMIn the sea, there are Sea-Cows (possibly the species known in RL as Steller's, possibly a different -- but very similar-- one instead) and -- at least in the waters between the Bears' eastern [mainland] coasts and the islands that one clan inhabits even further out to the east of these ('I.R'] there are Sea Otters. [/quote]

Sounds good. I'll be looking into the sea life of Sidh Ohn when I get the chance.

As to anthropomorphism. The only semi-examples of it occur in the protectorate of Tharnwoad, which I'll get into later in a dedicated thread.

[Bears Armed]

(I tried to post a reply here yesterday evening, but the computer malfunctioned: It will probably be Tuesday before I have time to re-type that message.)

[Bears Armed]

Bears ArmedNov 29 2009, 02:45 PM (I tried to post a reply here yesterday evening, but the computer malfunctioned: It will probably be Tuesday before I have time to re-type that message.) [/quote]
Oops! I'll look through my files, to see whether they contain any notes about what I was going to say back then... :unsure:

[Jade Tigers]

Bears ArmedDec 30 2009, 04:22 PM Oops! I'll look through my files, to see whether they contain any notes about what I was going to say back then... :unsure: [/quote]
Patiently awaiting your thoughts on the above.

[Bears Armed]

Sidh OhnNov 23 2009, 07:26 AM Hmmm...I would prefer the majority of our border to be a series of high plateaus, perhaps with a low mountain ranges slightly further inside your own borders if you like. The summer passes thing works though.



I'm not entirely adverse to it (I did come from a dying RP region, so its not entirely unthinkable) though the point was that the polar mass was at one time much much larger than its current state (large enough to have been considered its own continent at one point) such that the northern plate shift would not have been excessively extreme (extreme still but not excessively so) to move to its current position. The likelihood would then be that the plate shift resulted in the destruction of much of the northern ice shelf (and likely numerous icebergs in the northern seas.) As I said, I'm not completely adverse to the arrival from an alternate reality idea, but would prefer to keep things as "natural science" as possible. Besides, it would lead to much more interesting history with the Sidh Ohn migrating through early Bear Lands and so forth, rather than just spacia-temporialy displacing the previous nation.



Not a fan of catastrophic geo-history theory I take it? Bear in mind that in the terms I was discussing the Sidh Ohn are not "new" to the region, only the Nation as it currently exists is. So you have a nomadic people that, despite learning everything they can, spend centuries if not millenia maintaining an ancient form of existence with only sporadic (usually violent or trading based) interactions with the developing nations that would eventually form the IDU. The nation would only have "officially" formed when driven from every other place, they stormed the lands ruled by Frontenax and established their own nation. So, while their cultural memory may include the "geologic upheaval", it does not mean that it would have occured in recent or even "IDU" history but rather at some point in the regions "mythic" past. As such, while the continental drift would have been relatively rapid by normal geologic standards, it likely would actually have taken centuries if not a millenia to complete.



I find it much more likely that the "Ice Crow" is simply a case of isolated benign mutation spread throughout the breeding stock. Simply put, the land that Sidh Ohn inhabits it geologically isolated enough (mainly by low mountains and high plateaus) that the Chromatic Crows simply developed their own strain through basic natural selection. A silvery to bluish sheen is much more useful to survival in Sidh Ohn, than any other color except perhaps dark green, but hey they can't have it all right?



In the northern IDU? The current theory (see above) is that occured as described in the continent's pre-history. In their current form as a regional nation? Realistically (ie. the "invasion" began), whenever it was I arrived on the forums (not sure how that equates in terms of regional years.) Politically, when Frontenax became inactive.


Bears ArmedNov 7 2009, 07:05 PMFauna of the North

This isn't by any means a complete list, and of course you don't have to accept any of the species that I mention, but anyway_

Frontenax had the Grizzly Bear as his national animal and before vanishing he agreed that an Ursine species which I'd invented probably also extended into part of his lands: The 'Mountain Bear' (or 'Varying Bear', or 'Blue Bear'...) is a relatively lightly-built species that, instead of hibernating, normally changes its fur's colour seasonally for better camouflage... and also has a version that stays 'blue' all year, just as the Arctic Fox does. It's mainly found inland (because Polar Bears, which are significantly larger, monopolise the richer food resources along the coast) and in winter it's primarily a hunter/scavenger rather than an omnivore. Whether any of the Bears on your side of the border are sapient (and possibly anthropomorphic, too)? is, of course, entirely up to you...

The clan at the south-west of the Bears' 'Northlands', marked on the map to which I've linked in this post as 'F'' which stands for either 'Five Lakes' or 'Forest Lakes', includes a group that herds semi-domesticated Moose and we've also got at least one other sort of Deer thereabouts... and there are definitely Reindeer/Caribou up north, especially along the northwards-pointing peninsula ('N.C') that I've added to the map near the eastern end of the Bears' Northlands , too.?
How do you feel about the Woolly Rhinoceros, which is a grazer? I'm thinking of having a surviving (but "dwarfed") stock of thsi in 'B.F' & possibly elsewhere, in which case it could plausibly have relatives on your side of the border too...[/quote]

I see no problem with any of this. As said before, the Auroch also exists in Sidh Ohn, and given that they were driven to the continent (by whatever means we eventually agree on) it is possible some may have strayed into Bear-lands as well if you like. There is also the Sidh Ohn "Brother-Wolf" (to be described in detail at a later date) but the Ohn keep such a tight cultural attachement with them that it is unlikely they have spread beyond Sidh Ohn lands. As I said before, sadly, the Arctic Wolf is extinct in Sidh Ohn due to (I assume) an already low population from hunting by the people of Frontenax, and competition and outbreeding by the Sidh Ohn Brother-Wolves.



Sounds good. I'll be looking into the sea life of Sidh Ohn when I get the chance.

As to anthropomorphism. The only semi-examples of it occur in the protectorate of Tharnwoad, which I'll get into later in a dedicated thread. [/quote]
Hokay, let's see _

Re the nature of the border, of course you're free to make your side of it whatever you want: The "mountains" that I visualise as existing on my side of the line are mostly fairly low ones, worn down into linear ridges rather than peaks, so your side being more plateau-like works well enough.

Re the arrival of your people, even the slightly slower "fast" continental drift that you're suggesting is something that I wouldn't really be happy about. We'd apparently be talking about something on the line of 15-20 degrees of latitude of movement for the two land-masses combined, after all: Consider what ithe logical side-effects would be in terms of vulcanism, earthquakes & tsunamis, as well as the difficulty of species evolving fast enough to cope with the climate & latitude changes!
Perhaps leaving the precise details of your people's arrival buried in the depths of your mythology might be the wisest solution after all?

Re the limited nature of "pre-recent" contacts between your people & the rest of the IDU, if you arrived in the coastal "lobe" immediately to the east of my 'Northlands' then this could -- like the Northlands themselves -- have been basically sealed-off from its neighbours until very recently by one of the mystical barriers that seem to have been emplaced during the Wizards' War that took place during parts of the 1st century BC & 1st century AD... although of course that would be up to you.

Re the 'Ice Crow', okay.
Re the Aurochs, I suspect that any who strayed through to us probably got eaten rather than domesticated: We have enough other herd-beasts, after all...


Oh, and now that you've chosen a location for your nation we can decide where your embassy to the Bears is placed: Considering your lcoation, and Ursine history, the best option would be to put it in 'NorthPort' -- in the 'Northlands' -- and you'd be dealing with the 'Council of the North' rather than [directly] with the 'High Council of Clans'. Is that okay as far as you are concerned?

[Jade Tigers]

Bears ArmedJan 16 2010, 07:48 PM Sidh Ohn,Nov 23 2009 07:26 AMPerhaps leaving the precise details of your people's arrival buried in the depths of your mythology might be the wisest solution after all?

Re the limited nature of "pre-recent" contacts between your people & the rest of the IDU, if you arrived in the coastal "lobe" immediately to the east of my 'Northlands' then this could -- like the Northlands themselves -- have been basically sealed-off from its neighbours until very recently by one of the mystical barriers that seem to have been emplaced during the Wizards' War that took place during parts of the 1st century BC & 1st century AD... although of course that would be up to you.

...


Oh, and now that you've chosen a location for your nation we can decide where your embassy to the Bears is placed: Considering your lcoation, and Ursine history, the best option would be to put it in 'NorthPort' -- in the 'Northlands' -- and you'd be dealing with the 'Council of the North' rather than [directly] with the 'High Council of Clans'. Is that okay as far as you are concerned? [/quote]
The Wizard War thing I'd really need to know more about. Maybe PM the basic info to me?

That said, and somewhat more back OT, my conception had the Ohn invading from the northwest, but given your concerns as well as my dislike for the whole space/time overlay of nations (not to mention my addition of Muircine), we could say that there is something akin to a space/time leak, that is much like another type of weather pattern only much more slow. Every so often (say every hundred years or so), there would be a sort of temporal storm somewhere in the world causing a sort of gateway between realities to open. In the Ohn's case then, they would have used one of these gates to flee the aforementioned catastrophy, and subsequently supplant the previously ruling nation.

I do still like the idea that there was a much larger ice shelf to the north that shattered at some point, leaving a smaller continent or shelf there now, as it makes the north and northern seas more interesting than just an empty ocean.

...and we're more than happy to deal with the Council of the North. The Muircine in particular are well disposed to the northern Ursines (not many others, but there you go... )

Again, back OT, off the Muircine coasts there are to particularly notable types of fish. the first is a type of Salmon that migrates through the area on there ways north to breed and so can be found at various times all along the region's coast. The second is a type of highly aggressive shark (possibly related to the Tiger Shark) that, since the founding of Sidh Ohn, have been referred to as Sea Wolves, largely because they seem to hunt in packs rather than as individuals.

[Bears Armed]

Sidh OhnFeb 8 2010, 05:46 AM Bears ArmedJan 16 2010, 07:48 PMPerhaps leaving the precise details of your people's arrival buried in the depths of your mythology might be the wisest solution after all?

Re the limited nature of "pre-recent" contacts between your people & the rest of the IDU, if you arrived in the coastal "lobe" immediately to the east of my 'Northlands' then this could -- like the Northlands themselves -- have been basically sealed-off from its neighbours until very recently by one of the mystical barriers that seem to have been emplaced during the Wizards' War that took place during parts of the 1st century BC & 1st century AD... although of course that would be up to you.[/quote]
The Wizard War thing I'd really need to know more about. Maybe PM the basic info to me?

That said, and somewhat more back OT, my conception had the Ohn invading from the northwest, but given your concerns as well as my dislike for the whole space/time overlay of nations (not to mention my addition of Muircine), we could say that there is something akin to a space/time leak, that is much like another type of weather pattern only much more slow. Every so often (say every hundred years or so), there would be a sort of temporal storm somewhere in the world causing a sort of gateway between realities to open. In the Ohn's case then, they would have used one of these gates to flee the aforementioned catastrophy, and subsequently supplant the previously ruling nation.

I do still like the idea that there was a much larger ice shelf to the north that shattered at some point, leaving a smaller continent or shelf there now, as it makes the north and northern seas more interesting than just an empty ocean.

...and we're more than happy to deal with the Council of the North. The Muircine in particular are well disposed to the northern Ursines (not many others, but there you go... )

Again, back OT, off the Muircine coasts there are to particularly notable types of fish. the first is a type of Salmon that migrates through the area on there ways north to breed and so can be found at various times all along the region's coast. The second is a type of highly aggressive shark (possibly related to the Tiger Shark) that, since the founding of Sidh Ohn, have been referred to as Sea Wolves, largely because they seem to hunt in packs rather than as individuals. [/quote]
You can find some information about the 'Wizards' War' in this very section of the forum, just scroll down the list of topics until you see the 'Regional History' thread that I started and it gets discussed a bit there; the st of it I haven't actually typed-up yet...

I'm still thinking about the possibility that you suggested of there formerly having been a larger ice-sheet (& maybe a land-mass) between our northern isles and the Arctic [sub-(?)] continent. On my full map, which hasn't been copied across to the regional one yet, the Bears' "Northlands" do already include a peninsula & some islands that aren't on the regional map at all, but I need to sort out the urls for other people to use when accessing the site where my maps are stored: Fortunately I've got next week of from work, so I might be able to get this done then so that you'll be able to see these details... although my mother is in hospital (due to complications of Parkinson' Disease) in a town a few miles away and so of course I'll be spending some time during that break visiting her there rather than being here online.

As regards the 'temporal storm' idea, there's certainly precedent for something along those lines -- the main term used in the past was 'fractal reality' -- in these parts. For example, the former nation of Ceorana -- part of which, located to my south-west & your west, is now under Ursine protection -- actually had two completely separate histories (each involving colonisation from a different part of a RL-like Earth) that "somehow" merged. (That confusing back-story was actually one of the main reasons why its player let that nation die off...)

An active species of predatory shark in northern waters seems slightly unlikely to me, considering RL ecosystems, but if you want one in your nation's waters then obviously I can't stop you. I suspect that any of them who enter my nation's waters would get killed & eaten by the local Orcas, though... Is this to be a (partially, like some RL types, or even wholely) 'warm-blooded' species of shark?

Oh, and I think that we have -- at least in my waters, with it obviously being your choice as to whether they extend into your waters as well -- at least one species of Sturgeon up there too.

[Jade Tigers]

Bears ArmedFeb 13 2010, 07:17 PM You can find some information about the 'Wizards' War' in this very section of the forum, just scroll down the list of topics until you see the 'Regional History' thread that I started and it gets discussed a bit there; the st of it I haven't actually typed-up yet...

... although my mother is in hospital (due to complications of Parkinson' Disease) in a town a few miles away and so of course I'll be spending some time during that break visiting her there rather than being here online.

As regards the 'temporal storm' idea, there's certainly precedent for something along those lines -- the main term used in the past was 'fractal reality' -- in these parts. For example, the former nation of Ceorana -- part of which, located to my south-west & your west, is now under Ursine protection -- actually had two completely separate histories (each involving colonisation from a different part of a RL-like Earth) that "somehow" merged. (That confusing back-story was actually one of the main reasons why its player let that nation die off...)

An active species of predatory shark in northern waters seems slightly unlikely to me, considering RL ecosystems, but if you want one in your nation's waters then obviously I can't stop you. I suspect that any of them who enter my nation's waters would get killed & eaten by the local Orcas, though... Is this to be a (partially, like some RL types, or even wholely) 'warm-blooded' species of shark?

Oh, and I think that we have -- at least in my waters, with it obviously being your choice as to whether they extend into your waters as well -- at least one species of Sturgeon up there too. [/quote]
OK, the Wizards War thing actually makes some sense, as a resurgence in the mystical barrier near Frontenax (probably caused by the "fractal-storm") could have made the successful invasion by the Ohn possible due to the inability of Frontenax' neighbors to come to its aid because of the resurgent barrier. This also ties into the Muircine's overall bitterness toward the non-ursine nations.

(Sorry to hear about your Mother; hope she does better!)

So, as above, perhaps they should be called "Fractal Storms"? In any case, I think these "Fractal Weather Patterns" (as well as the standard ones) are deserving of exploration here as well, as they would definitely have an effect on the regional ecology...)

Actually, the "Sea Wolf" was originally conceived as a type of barracuda, but the concept of agressive sharks that hunted in schools, or "packs", was just so cool that I changed it. That said, I envision them as partially warm blooded; in that they generate body heat be being in constant motion (in much the way most RL sharks breath) despite being otherwise cold-blooded. This also accounts for their aggressive demeanor, as they need a relatively constant food intake. Combine that with their unusual (for predatory sharks anyway) tendency to live and hunt in groups, and they could well even give an orca a run for its money... That said, it is unlikely that their range would extend much farther north or south than the seas east of the Muircine coast, as they are rather specialized to that ecosystem and its cycles.

I see no reason why we would not share the sturgeon in common as well. Are the Salmon I mentioned before ok with you? I did envision them as conducting their breeding runs in your territories after all...

[lursan]

Any idea for a nation with kinda an isolated fauna and flora, on an islands of the northern continent

[Bears Armed]

lursanMar 20 2010, 07:12 PM Any idea for a nation with kinda an isolated fauna and flora, on an islands of the northern continent [/quote]
Which islands... or, if they aren't actually on the map yet, where would they be? Give me that information and I'd be delighted to give you some advice...

[Jade Tigers]

Assuming that we're not looking at areas that are currently on the map, the best options would be a place somewhat to the north-west of the northern continent that would be a northern extension of the southern continental plate or far off the eastern coast on a completely separate plate. So basically you would end up with either a Galapagos type of situation, or a Polynesian type of situation. In either case you end up with a mostly isolated and thus rather unique local ecology.

[The Dark Star Republic]

We might consider reviving this discussion with a focus on migratory species in the IDU given the current resolution in the WA.

[Bears Armed]

The Dark Star RepublicMay 1 2014, 08:30:42 PMWe might consider reviving this discussion with a focus on migratory species in the IDU given the current resolution in the WA.[/quote]Noted. I know that Bears Armed [for example] certainly has populations of some species that migrate across our borders -- at least one species of bird (originally described by somebody else) and some fish, at the very least, have already been mentioned in one place or another -- and will look for my old notes on the subject.

:Bear:

[Bears Armed]

Bears ArmedMay 10 2014, 05:32:05 PMI know that Bears Armed [for example] certainly has populations of some species that migrate across our borders -- at least one species of bird (originally described by somebody else) [/quote]Granveo Snowfinch

http://s10.zetaboards.com/IDU/topic/707791/1/


(EDIT: although the maps of migration patterns produced in that thread use a now-outdated version of the regional map...)

:Bear:

[Bears Armed]

Birds of the IDU: Endemic orders and families
Part 1: non-Passerine Birds


(Names in parentheses = also found on RL Earth; ^ = name not used in RL; # = extinct in RL, * = extinct in IDU; ** = was found, now extinct, in both)



(Class Aves, Sub-class Palaeognathae)

[[none]]


(Class Aves, Sub-class Neognathae, Infra-class Galloanserae)

(Super-order Pangalliformes)

01. Order Palaeogalliformes
01.1. Family Galloraptoridae *
01.2. Sub-order Palaeoperdiciforma * => (several families) *
01.3. Sub-Order Deinogalliforma
01.3a. Family Eodeinogallidae *
01.3b. Family Deinogallidae *
01.3c. Family Aquilogallidae

02. (Order Galliformes)
02.1. Family Neoperdicidae
02.2. Family Halologopidae
02.3. (Family Phasianidae) => sub-family Prophasianinae
02.4. several other families *

(Super-order Pananseriformes)

03. (Order Odontopertygia) #
03.1 (Family Pelagornithidae) ** => sub-family Thalassoavinae *
03.2 Family Notopelagornithidae *
03.3. Family Neopelagornithidae

04. (Order Anseriformes)
04.A. Sub-0rder Baryornithida *
04.A.a. Family Baryornithidae *
04.B. (Sub-order Anserida ^)
04.B.a. (Family Anatidae) => sub-family Presybanserinae


(Class Aves, Sub-class Neognathae, Infra-class Neoaves)
(Cohort Columbae)

(Super-order Columbimorpha)

05. (Order Columbiforma)
05.1 Family Frugiphagiavidae
05.2. several other families*

06. Order Chlorophagiorniformes *
06.1. * Family Chlorophagiornidae

07. Order Coturnocolumbiformes *
07.1. Family Coturnocolumbidae *
07.2. Family Xerocolumbidae *

(Super-order Mirandornithes)

08. (Order Podicepiformes)
08.1. Family Palaeopodicepidae *
08.2. Family Macropodicepidae *


(Class Aves, Sub-class Neognathae, Infra-class Neoaves)
(Cohort Passerae)

09. Order Terpsichoraviformes
09.1. Family Terpsichoravidae
09.1a. sub-family Terpsichoravinae
09.1b. sub-family Terpsichorardeinae *

(Cohort Cypselomorpha)

10. (Order Caprimulgiformes)
10.1. (Family Caprimulgidae) => sub-family Boreowillinae

(Cohort Otidea)

11. (Order Cuculliformes)
11.1 (Super-family Cuculloidea 1)
11.1a. Family Paracucullidae
11.2. Super-family Cuculliraptoroidea *
11.2a. Family Cuculliraptoridae *
11.2b. Family Parvocucullidae *

12. (Order Otidiformes)
12.1. (Family Otididae) => sub-family Struthiotidinae *
12.2b.i. Family Cursoridae => sub-family Orthocursorinae
12.2b.ii. Family Cursoridae => sub-family Parvicursorinae

(Cohort Coronoaves)
(Sub-cohort Cursorimorpha)

13. Family Proterorallidae *

14. Order Ibidorostriformes
14.1. Family Ibidorostridae

15. (Order Charadriiformes)
15.1.a. (Family Charadriidae) => sub-family Palaeocharadriiinae *
15.1.b. (Family Charadriidae) => sub-family Mesocharadriinae
15.2.a. Family Paracharadriide => sub-family Paracharadrinae
15.2.b. Family Paracharadriide => sub-family Aureocharadriinae
15.2.c. Family Paracharadriide => sub-family Charrwiniinae
15.3a. Family Boreocharadriidae => sub-family Boreocharadriinae
15.3b.Family Boreocharadriidae => sub-family Pachyrhynchinae
15.4. Family Patellaraptoridae
15.5a. (Family Scolopacidae) => sub-family Iduiscolopacinae
15.5b. (Family Scolopacidae) => sub-family Paraphalaropinae
15.5c. (Family Scolopacidae) => sub-family Ibidonumeniniae
15.5d. (Family Scolopacidae) => sub-family Plataleinumeniniae
15.6. (Family Stercorariidae) => sub-family Stercoraributeoninae
15.7a. Family Boreoraptoridae * => sub-family Boreoaquiloidinae *
15.7b. Family Boreoraptoridae * => sub-family Boreoacciptrinae *
15.8. (Family Alcidae) => sub-family Pinguinoidinae

16. (Order Gruiformes)
16.1. (Sub-order Grues)
16.1a. (Family Rallidae) => sub-family Mesorallinae
16.1b.i. Family Palaeorallidae => sub-family Eorallidae *
16.1b.ii. Family Palaeorallidae => sub-family Palaeorallinae
16.1b.iii. Family Palaeorallidae => sub-family Feniiirallinae
16.1c. Family Psophoiididae
16.2 Sub-order Deinogrues *
16.2a. Family Deinogruidae *
16.2b. Family Titanogruidae *

(Cohort Coronoaves)
(Sub-cohort Aequiornithes)

17. (Order Ardeiformes)
17.1. Family Coelorostridae

(Cohort Coronoaves)
(Sub-cohort Telluraves)
(Infra-cohort Afroaves)

18. (Order Cathartiformes)
18.1 (Family Cathartidae) => Sub-family Iduivulturinae
18.2. (Family Teratornidae) #

19. (Order Acciptriformes)
19.1. (Family Acciptridae) => sub-family Melanopteraccipterinae

20. (Order Strigiformes)
20.1. Family Falcostrigidae

21. (Order Bucerotiformes)
21.1. Family Parabucerotidae

22. (Order Coraciiformes)
22.1. Sub-order Parapassera
22.1a.i. Family Antipasseridae => sub-family Antisturninae
22.1a.ii. Family Antipasseridae => sub-family Taxovorinae
22.1a.iii. Family Antipasseridae => several other sub-families *
22.1b. Family Charrwinornidae
22.1c. Family Vulcanavidae
22.1d. several other families *
22.2. (Sub-order Coraciiforma ^)
22. 2a. (Infra-order Eucororaciiforma ^ /Super-family Coraciioidea ^)
22.2a.i. (Family Coraciidae) => sub-family Paralaninae
22.2b. Infra-order Pseudocuculliforma
22.2b.i. Family Pseudocucullidae
22.3. (Sub-order Alecdiniforma ^)
22.3a.(Super-family Momotoidea ^)
22.3a.i. Family Tarrabiaidae
22.3b.(Super-family Alcedinoidea ^)
22.3b.1/a. (Family Alcedinidae) => sub-family Hrrughinae
22.3b.1/b. (Family Alcedinidae) => sub-family Lazuliavinae
22.3b.ii. Family Darrlesiidae

23. (Order Piciformes)
23.1. Family Malabraiavidae

(Cohort Coronoaves)
(Sub-cohort Telluraves)
(Infra-cohort Australaves)

24. (Order Psittaciformes)
24.1. Super-family Boreopsittacoidea
24.1a. Family Boreopsittacidae
24.2. (Super-family Psittacoidea)
24.2a. (Family Psittaculidae) => sub-family Iduipsittacinae

[Nova Sodor]

Crikey - that's what you call a comprehensive listing!

This feels like a poor second to Bear's offering but I see the flora and fauna of Nova Sodor as being similar to those that can be found on the Channel Islands so quite exotic but hardy at the same time in order to deal with the somewhat chilly winters that we experience at lower elevations (higher elevations will expericnce snow and colder conditions most winters).

[Bears Armed]

Nova SodorApr 15 2016, 11:19:04 AMCrikey - that's what you call a comprehensive listing!

This feels like a poor second to Bear's offering but I see the flora and fauna of Nova Sodor as being similar to those that can be found on the Channel Islands so quite exotic but hardy at the same time in order to deal with the somewhat chilly winters that we experience at lower elevations (higher elevations will expericnce snow and colder conditions most winters).
[/quote]So basically a 'Western Europe' fauna & flora, but with a few 'Southern Europe' details added, although in some cases you might have IDU-endemic species rather than their RL counterparts?

:Bear:

[Bears Armed]

Birds of the IDU: Endemic Orders, Families, and Sub-families

Historically, types of life-forms have been classified into groups in a hierarchy of named levels from ΄Domain΄ [a fairly recent innovation, which is the widest in extent, ?above? the previous top level of ΄Kingdom΄?] down to ΄Species΄, or in some cases even down to ΄Sub-species΄ or ΄Race΄. More recently, mainstream biological thought has preferred to use ΄cladistic΄ systems of classification in which a population΄s affinities are shown as its part of a branching ?tree of life? with multiple divisions that mostly don΄t correspond clearly with the formerly-recognised levels. However as classifications in the latter system tend to be more cumbersome to write than ones in the older system, and may be harder for non-biologists to comprehend, I will basically be using a version of the older system ? although taking account of modern research into the relationships between groups, and in some cases inserting extra levels into the pattern to account for this ? when writing this set of articles: The levels of classification used will be as shown in the following list, in which the levels shown in bold here will apply in all species΄ lineages but some or all of the [potential] levels that are shown here in normal font instead will often be omitted as unnecessary.
Domain => Sub-Domain => Infra-Domain => Kingdom => Sub-kingdom => Infra-kingdom => Super-phylum => Phylum => Sub-phylum => Super-class => Class => Sub-class => Infra-class => Super-cohort => Cohort => Sub-cohort => Super-order => Order => Sub-order => Infra-order => Super-family => Family => Sub-family => Tribe => Genus => Sub-genus => Super-species => Species => Sub-species => Race.

All the species of Birds that now exist belong in the Class Aves (which belongs to [naming only the ?major? steps, until we reach that point in the list] the Domain Eukaryota, Kingdom Animalia, Phylum Chordata, and Sub-phylum Vertebrata), as do some of their extinct relatives. Modern systems of classification tend to add only those extinct forms that share the latest common ancestor of all the extant forms within this category, and for simplicity΄s sake ? and as, in my opinion, the likelihood that our region΄s fauna still includes any members of the groups which that would exclude seems very low? I will do the same.

I am nowhere close to writing a complete list of the Bird species that can be found living wild within the IDU yet, and probably never would get that far even if everybody else with nations here were to agree fully with my suggestions. However I do have a fairly good idea about which taxonomical families of birds that occur on RL Earth are likely either to be present in the IDU as well or ? due to our region΄s differences from RL Earth in geomorphological and evolutionary histories ? to have local replacements that occur only in the IDU (rather than on RL Earth as well) instead. Species or larger groups of life-forms which occur naturally only within some specific area (such as, for example, the IDU), are described as being ΄endemic΄ to that area, and here is my [currently] suggested list for our region΄s endemic Bird groups down to the ΄Sub-family΄ level. We certainly will have many species and even genera (and maybeso even for certain families, some entire ΄tribes΄?) of endemic birds that belong to families or sub-families which we share with RL Earth, too, but I΄ll leave the discussion of those for another time.

Some of these endemic groups would exist in part or all of the IDU alongside their closest RL equivalents, but others would almost certainly ?replace? those counterparts fully [unless any of you insist on still having those counterparts present within your nations]. Reasonably well-known RL groups that I would expect to see fully replaced are: partridges & quail [replaced by an endemic family that΄s closely related to the RL one], Albatrosses [replaced by Albatross-sized members of the Odontopterygiformes, a group whose last RL members didn΄t die out until only maybeso 2 million years ago], Divers/Loons [replaced by an additional branch of the Grebes], ?true? Cuckoos [replaced, in different areas & roles, by members of several different groups], Spoonbills [replaced by a specialised offshoot of the Curlews], Swallows [replaced by one branch of an endemic Order that΄s actually more closely related to Hawks], Shrikes [replaced by members of a group that΄s more closely related to Kingfishers], Hummingbirds and Sunbirds [both replaced by a group that΄s more related to the latter] and Warblers [for which, rather than sharing either or both of the RL ΄Old World Warbler΄ and ΄New World Warbler΄ families, we have an endemic family from the same basic group as those?]. Okay?

In the following lists a name given in parentheses, (thus), indicates that the group in question has members on RL Earth as well as in the IDU: If a ΄^΄ sign follows one of those names then it indicates that the name in question is one that [probably] isn΄t used in RL but that I΄ve added it here because I considered inserting another named level into the more usual RL pattern at that point useful for clarity. If a name is preceded by a ΄#΄ sign then the group in question is now extinct in RL: If a name is followed by an asterisk, thus *, then the group in question is [probably, unless any of you decide that it should still exist within your nations] now extinct within the IDU... For some groups both of those situations apply. However if the asterisk is enclosed, thus [*], then there exists some uncertainty (IC and/or OOC?) about the group΄s current status. (I have included a number of now-extinct groups in this list because deciding which groups should be present today entailed thinking through the region΄s evolutionary history, and it seemed probable to me that those groups ? or something along similar lines ? [i]should have existed here at various stages before the fauna had reached its modern pattern: It΄s just a case of ?showing my working?, basically, although if anybody΄s interested enough then I suppose there would be potential material here for use in RP about palaeontological expeditions?)[/i]
The first list gives the ΄scientific΄ names for all of these groups, and shows where they fit in among the groups that exist in RL: For this reason I΄ve included all of the Orders, even those that don΄t have any endemic Sub-families or larger groups here: If their name is followed by ΄[[none]]΄[ then that simply means that there are no endemic sub-groups; only if that is followed by ΄ABSENT΄ does it indicate that I think the Order in question wouldn΄t have any members native to the IDU [unless any of you are absolutely determined to have them present within your own nation] at all. The names are in ?Biologists΄ Latin?, which borrows some descriptive elements from Greek and names of relevant people or places from various other languages (e.g. English, Ursine?) too in addition to using genuinely Latin elements, and so some of these names might seem ?incorrect? to people who actually know ΄proper΄ Latin. If you΄re in the latter category then feel free to suggest [and to explain, too, please?] potential ΄improvements΄ for that aspect of the list. The fact that I myself do not know much ΄proper΄ Latin means that I΄ve had to work mainly from terms that I understood from various RL species names, resulting in an amount of repetition here that doesn΄t entirely please me, so I΄m open to suggestions about more diverse synonyms or other alternatives as well: Just remember [1] that we can΄t duplicate the names already given to any RL groups; and [2] the endings ??inae? for sub-families, ?-idae? for families, and (as we΄re talking about Birds here) ?-iformes? for orders are actually required.
The second list then gives suggested names in English for the members of each extant endemic group, and for some of the extinct ones as well, many of which should give you clues about those groups΄ ecological functions.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


(Class Aves, Sub-class Paleognathae)

(Order Struthioniformes): [[none]]
(Order Rheiformes): [[none]] ABSENT
# (order Lithorniformes): [[none]] ABSENT
(Order Casuariiformes): [[none]] ABSENT
# (Order Dinorniformes): [[none]] ABSENT
(Order Tinamiformes): [[none]]
(Order Apterygiformes): [[none]] ABSENT
# (Order Aepyorniformes): [[none]] ABSENT


(Class Aves, Sub-class Neognathae; basal stock)

Order Proteroperdiciformes *
=> Family Archaeoperdicidae *
=> Family Protoeroperdicidae *
=> Family Briiiperdicidae *


(Class Aves, Sub-class Neognathae, Infra-class Galloanserae)

# (Order Gastorniformes) * [[none]]

(Super-order Pangalliformes)

Order Palaeogalliformes
=>=> Family Galloraptoridae *
=> Sub-order Palaeoperdiciformae *
=>=> Family Palaeoperdicidae *
=>=>=> Sub-family Eteoperdicidae *
=>=>=> Sub-family Xenoperdicidae *
=>=>=> Sub-family Macroperdicidae *
=>=> Family Oligoperdicidae *
=>=> Family Insuliiperdicidae *
=>=> Family Eodendroperdicidae*
=> Sub-order Deinogalliformae
=>=> Family Eodeinogallidae *
=>=> Family Deinogallidae *
=>=> Family Aquilogallidae

# (Order Sylviorniformes ^) *
=> Family Eosylviornidae *
=> Family Iduisylviornidae *
=>=> Sub-family Iduisylviorninae *
=>=> Sub-family Megasylviorninae *

(Order Galliformes)
=> Family Eteoperdicidae *
=> Family Oligoperdicidae *
=> Family Oligophasianidae *
=> Family Promeleagridae *
=> Family Neoperdicidae
=>=> Sub-family Neoperdicinae
=>=> Sub-family Erythroperdicinae
=>=> Sub-family Nyctoperdicinae
=>=> Sub-family Dendroperdicinae
=>=> Sub-family Parvoperdicinae
=> Family Fucaivorornidae
=> Family Struthiogallidae *
=> (Family Phasianidae)
=>=> Sub-family Prophasianinae

(Super-order Pananseriformes)

(Order Anseriformes)
=> Sub-order Baryorniformae *
=>=> Family Baryornithidae *
=> (Sub-order Anseriformae ^)
=>=> (Family Anseridae)
=>=>=> Sub-family Presbyanserinae
=>=>=> Sub-family Xenomerginae

# (Order Odontopterygiformes)
=> # (Family Pelagornithidae) *
=>=> Sub-family Thalssornithinae *
=> Family Notopelagornithidae *
=> Family Neopelagornithidae


(Class Aves, Sub-class Neognathae, Infra-class Neoaves)

(Super-cohort Columbae, Cohort Columbimorpha)

Super-order Columbimorphae

(Order Columbiformes)
=> (Sub-order Columbiae ^)
=>=> (Super-family Columboidea ^)
=>=>=> Family Miocolumbidae *
=>=>=> (Family Columbidae)
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Iduicolumbinae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Hesperocolumbinae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Cyanocolumbinae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Iduiraphinae *
=>=>=> Family Heterocolumbidae
=>=> Super-family Frugivorornoidea
=>=>=> Family Frugivorornidae*
=>=>=> Family Microcolumbidae
=>=>=> Family Callicaudatidae [*]
=> Sub-order Geocolumbiae
=>=> Family Perdiciocolumbidae *
=>=> Family Coturnocolumbidae
=>=> Family Xerocolumbidae *

Order Chlorophagorniformes *
=> Family Chlorophagornidae *

Super-order Pteroclidiformae

(Order Pteroclidiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Order Mesitornithiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Super-cohort Columbae, Cohort Mirandornithes)

(Order Podicepiformes)
=> Family Paleopodicepidae *
=>=> Sub-family Eopodicepinae *
=>=> Sub-family Potamopodicepinae *
=>=> Sub-family Presbypodicepinae *
=> Family Boreopodicepidae
=>=> Sub-family Boreopodicepinae
=>=> Sub-family Thalassopodicepinae *

(Order Phoenicopteriformes) [[none]]

(Super-cohort Passerae, Cohort Otidae)

(Sub-cohort Otididimorpha)
(Order Otididiformes)
=> (Family Otididae)
=>=> Sub-family Struthiotidinae
=> Family Cursoridae
=>=> Sub-family Orthocursorinae
=>=> Sub-family Parvocursorinae

(Order Cuculiformes)
=> (Super-family Cuculoidea ^)
=>=> (Family Centropodidae)
=>=>=> Sub-family Kirrouinae
=>=> Family Paracuculdiae
=> Super-family Cuculiraptoroidea
=>=> Family Cuculiraptoridae
=>=> family Parvocuculidae *

(Order Musophagiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Sub-cohort Cypselomorphae

(Super-order Daedalornithes)

=> (Order Apodiformes)
=>=> (Family Apodidae)
=>=>=> Sub-family Pictiapodinae

=> (Order Aegotheliformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Super-order Caprimulgiformae^)

=> (Order Caprimulgformes)
=>=> (Family Caprimulgidae)
=>=>=> Sub-family Boreowillinae
=>=> Family Nyctiphantasmidae

=> (Order Podargiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

=> (Order Steatornithiformes) [[none]]

(Super-cohort Passerae, Cohort Coronaves)

(Order Opisthocomiformes) [[none]]

Order Terpsichoriformes
=> Family Terpsichoridae
=>=> Sub-family Terpsichoravinae
=>=> Sub-family Terpsichorardeinae *

(Super-order Eurypigimorphae)

(Order Eurpygiformes) [[none]]

(Order Phaetoniformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Sub-cohort Cursoimorpha)

=> Family Proteorallidae *

Order Ibidorostriformes
=> Family Ibidosotridae

(Order Charadriformes)
=> (Family Charadriidae)
=>=> Sub-family Palaeocharadriinae *
=>=> Sub-family Mesocharadriinae
=> Family Paracharadriidae
=>=> Sub-family Paracharadriinae
[inc. ΄Aureocharadriinae΄]
=>=> Sub-family Fulvocharadriinae
=>=> Sub-family Neocharadriinae
=> Family Aeoliavidae
=> Family Boreocharadriidae
=>=> Sub-family Albicharadriinae
=>=> Sub-family Pachyrhynchinae
=> Family Patellaraptoridae
=> (Family Scolopacidae)
=>=> Sub-family Iduiscolopacinae
=>=> Sub-family Farradorninae
=>=> Sub-family Paraphalaropinae
=>=> Sub-family Ibidonumeninae
=>=> Sub-family Cochleonumeninae
=> (Family Stercorariidae)
=>=> Sub-family Stercorariibuteoninae
=> Family Boreoraptoridae *
=>=> Sub-family Boreoaquiloidinae *
=>=> Sub-family Boreoacciptrinae *
=> (Family Alcidae)
=>=> Sub-family Pinguinoidinae


(Order Gruiformes)
=> (Sub-order Grues)
=>=> (Family Rallidae)
=>=>=> Sub-family Malabrairallinae
=>=>=> Sub-family Mesorallinae
=>=>=> Sub-family Viridiorallinae
=>=> Family Palaeorallidae
=>=>=> Sub-family Eorallinae *
=>=>=> Sub-family Palaeorallinae *
=>=>=> Sub-family Charwinnirallinae
=>=>=> Sub-family Feniirallinae
=>=>=> Sub-family Vireorallinae
=>=>=> Sub-family Cuniculiirallinae [or =>=> Family Cuniculiirallidae]
=>=> Family Cornuornidae
=> Sub-order Deinogrues *
=> Family Deinogruidae *
=> Family Titanogruidae *


(Sub-cohort Aequiornithes)

(Order Gaviiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Order Procellariformes)
=> (Family Procellaridae)
=>=> Sub-family Keeslandinae

(Order Sphensiciformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Order Ciconiiformes) [[none]]

(Order Suliformes)
=> (Family Sulidae)
=>=> Sub-family Hesperosulinae

(Order Pelecaniformes)
=> (Sub-order Pelecaniforma ^)
=>=> Super-family Ardeiformae ^
=>=>=> (Family Ardeidae)
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Coelorostrinae
=>=>=> Family Brevirostridae *

(Sub-cohort Telluraves)

(Infra-cohort Afroaves

(Order Cathartiformes)
=> (Family Cathartidae)
=>=> (Sub-family Cathartinae ^)
=>=> Sub-family Iduivulturinae
=> # (Family Teratornidae)

(Super-order Accipitrimorpha ^)

(Order Accipitriformes)
=> Family Accipitridae
=>=> Sub-family Melanopteraccipiterinae
=>=> Sub-family Strigiaccipiterinae
=> Family Iduiaccipitridae
=>=> Sub-family Mesoaccipitrinae *
=>=> Sub-family Bracataiaccipitrinae
=>=> Sub-family Deinoaccipitrinae
=>=> Sub-family Umbraiaccipiterinae

Order Iduiaviformes
=>=> Family Palaeoiduiavidae *
=> Sub-order Iduiraptoriformae
=>=> Super-family Iduiraptroidea
=>=>=> Family Eoraptoridae *
=>=>=> Family Heteroraptoridae *
=>=>=> Family Ichthyraptoridae *
=>=>=> Family Macroraptoridae *
=>=>=> Family Neoraptoridae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Aureoaccipitrinae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Mohockiaccipitrinae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Notoraptorinae
>=>=> Family Parvomohockiidae
=>=> Super-family Georaptroidea
=>=>=> Family Georaptoridae
=>=>=> Family Mohockiornidae
=>=>=> Family Ultimoraptoridae * [[disputed]]
=> Sub-order Iduiorniformae
=>=> Super-family Iduiornithoidea
=>=>=> Family Oligoiduiornidae *
=>=>=> Family Aestipterornidae
=>=> Super-family Orthoiduiornoidea *
=>=>=> Family Orthoiduiornidae *
=>=>=> Family Paraiduiornidae *
=>=>=> Family Hesperoiduiornidae *
=>=>=> Family Querciornidae *

[end of Accipitrimorpha]

(Order Strigiformes)
=> (Family Tytonidae)
=>=> Sub-family Viridiostriginae
=> Family Falcostrigidae

(Order Coliiformes)
=> Family Eomuriornidae *
=> Family Sciurornidae *
=> Family Muriornidae

(Super-order Coraciimorpha ^)

(Order Leptosomatiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Order Trogoniformes) [[none]]

(Order Bucerotiformes)
=> Family Parabucerotidae
=>=> Sub-family Macrorostiorninae
=>=> Sub-family Dendroepopinae

(Order Coraciiformes)
=> (Sub-order Coraciiforma ^)
=>=> (Infra-order Eucororaciiforma ^)
=>=>=> (Super-family Coraciioidea ^)
=>=>=>=> (Family Coraciidae)
=>=>=>=>=> Sub-family Paralaniinae
=>=> Infra-order Pseudocuculiiforma
=>=> Family Pseudocuculiidae
=> (Sub-order Alecidiforma ^)
=>=>=> Family Proterohalcyonidae *
=>=> (Super-family Momotoidea ^)
=>=>=> Family Tarrabiaidae
=>=> (Super-family Alceioidea ^)
=>=>=> (Family Alecidae)
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Hrrughinae
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Lazuliavinae
=>=>=> Family Darrlesiidae
=> Sub-order Parapassera
=>=> Family Antipasseridae
=>=>=> Sub-family Antisturninae
=>=>=> Sub-family Taxovorinae
=>=>=> [[several other sub-families]] *
=>=> Family Charrwinornidae
=>=> Family Vulcanavidae
=>=> Family Mikitivitiornidae *
=>=> Family Mionostroiavidae *
=>=> Family Plionostoiavidae *
=>=> [[several other families]] *

(Order Piciformes)
=> (Family Picidae)
=>=> Sub-family Tumuluiimalleusinae [*]
=> Family Malabraiavidae

(Sub-cohort Australaves)

(Order Cariamiformes) [[none]] ABSENT

(Order Falconiformes) [[none]]

(Order Psittaciformes)
=> Super-family Boreopsittacoidea
=>=> Family Eopsittacidae*
=>=> Family Pliopsittacidae *
=>=> Family Boreopsittacidae
=> (Super-family Psittacoidea)
=>=> (Family Psittaculidae)
=>=>=> Sub-family Iduipsittaculinae

(Order Passeriformes)
=>=> Family Psittacorhynchidae *
=> (Sub-order Suboscines)
=>=> Infra-order Iduipasseriformae
=>=>=>=> Family Mimbruethiidae *
=>=>=> Super-family Fulviornoidea
=>=>=>=> Family Gerrurhiiidae *
=>=>=>=> Family Reeveiornidae *
=>=>=>=> Family Fulviornidae
=>=>=>=>=> Sub-family Eufulviorninae
=>=>=>=>=> Sub-family Parvofulviorninae
=>=>=>=>=> Sub-family Chlorocephalinae
=>=>=>=> Family Brachyrostrornidae
=>=>=>=> Family Formiciphilavidae
=>=>=>=> Family Stentorornidae
=>=>=> Super-family Piscatorlaniioidea
=>=>=>=> Family Piscatorlaiidae
=>=>=> Super-family Parvulornoidea
=>=>=>=> Family Paleoparvulornidae *
=>=>=>=> Family Parvulornidae
=>=>=>=> Family Baranxtuiavidae
=>=>=>=> Family Cyanorostridae
=>=>=>=> Family Arboriascenderidae
=>=>=>=>=> Sub-family Arboriascenderinae
=>=>=>=>=> Sub-family Petroascenderinae
=>=>=>=> Family Nectarimulgidae
=> (Sub-order Oscines)
=>=>=>Family Nonoriolidae
=>=> (Super-family Passeroidea)
=>=>=> Family Oligopaseroidae * [?]
=>=>=> Family Fonzoiavidae *
=>=>=> Family Macrotroglodytidae *
=>=>=> Family Iduisylvidae
=>=>=> Family Rodmelliidae
=>=>=> (Family Turdidae)
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Ouzelluinae
and either
=>=>=> Family Erythrofrontalidae
or
=>=>=> (Family Timalidae)
=>=>=>=> Sub-family Erythrofrontalinae



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

English names

Deinogalliformae = ΄Terror-Chickens΄
Aquilogallidae = Ground Eagles, or Killfowl

Neoperdicidae = [Iduvian] partridges and quail
Neoperdicinae = [some] [Iduvian] partridges
Erythroperdicinae = Rufous Partridges
Nyctoperdicinae = Night Partridge
Dendroperdicinae = Tree Partridges
Parvoperdicinae = [Iduvian] quail
Fucaivorornidae = Kelp Grouse
Prophasianinae = [Prophasian] pheasants

Presbyanserinae = Wading Geese
Xenomerginae = Odder Duck, or Saw-billed Steamer

# (Odontopterygiformes) / Neopelagornithidae = Toothbirds, or Soarers

Iduicolumbinae = [some] [Iduvian] pigeons and doves
Hesperocolumbinae = [some] [Iduvian] pigeons and doves
Cyanocolumbinae = Blue Doves
Heterocolumbidae = [some] [Iduvian] pigeons and doves
Frugivorornoidea = [Iduvian] fruit pigeons and fruit-doves
Microcolumbidae = Fig Doves, or Pygmy Pigeons, or Smidgeons
Callicaudatidae [*] = Pigeons-of-Paradise
Geocolumbiae = Ground Pigeons
Coturnocolumbidae = Quail-Doves
Xerocolumbidae * = Dryfowl

Boreopodicepidae = Northern Grebes
Boreopodicepinae = Sea-Grebes

Struthiotidinae = Greatest Bustard
Cursoridae = [Cursors and Groundrunners]
Orthocursorinae = Cursors
Parvocursorinae = Groundrunners

Kirrouinae = Kirrous
Paracuculdiae =Kirrocks
Cuculiraptoroidea = [Cuckoo-hawks]
Cuculiraptoridae = Clockbird

Pictiapodinae = Painted Swifts

Boreowillinae = Northwills
Nyctiphantasmidae = Night-ghosts

Terpsichoriformes / Terpsichoridae = Dancing Herons
Terpsichoravinae = White Dancer

Ibidorostriformes / Ibidosotridae = River Ibises

Mesocharadriinae = Grey Plovers
Paracharadriidae = [some] [Iduvian] plovers
Paracharadriinae = [Iduvian] lapwings, and green plovers
[inc. ΄Aureocharadriinae΄] = [Iduvian] Golden Plover
Fulvocharadriinae = Brown Plovers
Neocharadriinae = [some] [Iduvian] plovers
Aeoliavidae = Windriders
Boreocharadriidae = [the Arctic Plover and the Thickbills]
Boreocharadriinae = Arctic Plover
Pachyrhynchinae = Thickbills
Patellaraptoridae = Limpet-hunters
Iduiscolopacinae = some [Iduvian] sandpipers and knots
Farradorninae = [Iduvian] Wrybills
Paraphalaropinae = Seapipers
Ibidonumeninae = Ibis-Curlews
Cochleonumeninae = Spoon-billed Curlews
Stercorariibuteoninae = Ice Buzzards
Pinguinoidinae = Garefowl, or Flightless Auks

Malabrairallinae = Malabran Green Rails
Mesorallinae = Erroph?s Rail
Palaeorallidae = [Charrwin?s Rails, the Fen-hen, [[non-Malabran]] Green Rails]
Charwinnirallinae = Charrwin΄s Rails Feniirallinae = Fen-hen Vireorallinae = [[non-Malabran]] Green Rails Cuniculiirallinae / Cuniculiirallidae = Burrowing Rails [Bigfoot Rail and Digger Rail] Cornuornidae = Buglers
Deinogrues * / Deinogruidae * / Titanogruidae * = ΄Terror Cranes΄

Keeslandinae = White Petrels

Hesperosulinae = Western, or Grey, Gannets

Coelorostrinae = Hole-billed Heron
Brevirostridae * = Short-beaked Herons

Iduivulturinae = = [Iduvian] vultures
# (Teratornidae) = Emperor or Purple Vulture, or [Iduvian] Condor

Melanopteraccipiterinae = Black-winged Hawks
Strigiaccipiterinae = Bat-Hawk
Iduiaccipitridae = [some] [Iduvian] hawks
Bracataiaccipitrinae = Booted Hawks
Deinoaccipitrinae = Screech Hawks, or Terror-Hawks
Umbraiaccipiterinae = Shadow Hawks

Iduiaviformes = [[΄Iduiaves΄, or ?endemic accipitiriformoids?]]
Iduiraptoriformae / Iduiraptroidea = ΄Native Hawks΄
Neoraptoridae = [some] [Iduvian] hawks
Aureoaccipitrinae = Golden Hawk, or Lion Hawk
Mohockiaccipitrinae = Crested Hawks
Notoraccipiterinae = Forest Hawks and Forest Hawklets
Parvomohockiidae = Crested Hawklets
Georaptroidea / Georaptoridae = Ground Hawks
Mohockiornidae = Crested Crows
Iduiorniformae = [non-raptorial Iduiaves]
Iduiornithoidea = [long-winged Iduiorniforms]
Aestipterornidae = Summerwings, or Martlets

Viridiostriginae = Green Owls
Falcostrigidae = Falcon-Owlets [and Falcon-Owls *]

Muriornidae = [Iduvian] Mousebirds

Parabucerotidae = [Greatbeaks and Tree Hoopoes]
Macrorostiorninae = Greatbeaks
Dendroepopinae = Tree Hoopoes

Parapassera / Antipasseridae = ΄Mock-Passerines΄
Antisturninae = Swarmbirds, or Swarmlings
Taxovorinae = Yew-watchers
Charrwinornidae = Charrwin΄s Thrushes
Vulcanavidae = Volcano-watcher
Paralaniinae = Shrike-Rollers
Pseudocuculiiforma / Pseudocuculiidae = Bother-Birds, or Usurpers
Tarrabiaidae = Tarrabai
Hrrughinae = Hoverbirds
Lazuliavinae = Purple, or ΄Lazuline΄, Kingfishers
Darrlesiidae = Great Kingfishers

Tumuluiimalleusinae [*] = Antpeckers
Malabraiavidae = [Iduvian] Barbets

Boreopsittacoidea / Boreopsittacidae = Northlands Blue Parrot
Iduipsittaculinae = [other] [Iduvian] parrots & parakeets

Psittacorhynchidae * = [Parrot-beaked passerines]
Iduipasseriformae = [Iduvian Sub-Oscines]
Fulviornoidea = [larger Iduvian Sub-Oscines]
Fulviornidae = Brownbirds
Eufulviorninae = Common Brownbirds
Parvofulviorninae = Little Brownbirds
Chlorocephalinae = Green-headed Brownbirds, or Greeencaps
Brachyrostrornidae = Widebeaks
Formiciphilavidae = Antfriends
Stentorornidae = Racketts
Piscatorlaniioidea / Piscatorlaiidae = Fisher-Shrikes
Parvulornoidea = [smaller Iduvian Sub-Ocines]
Parvulornidae = Flitts
Baranxtuiavidae = Cheer-up Birds
Cyanorostridae = Bluebills
Arboriascenderidae = [Tree-climbers & Rock-hoppers]
Arboriascenderinae = Tree-climbers
Petroascenderinae = Rock-hoppers
Nectarimulgidae = Buzzbirds
Nonoriolidae = [Iduvian] Orioles
Macrotroglodytidae * = Giant Wrens
Iduisylvidae = [Iduvian] warblers
Rodmelliidae = [Rodmellid] finches
Ouzelluinae = [Iduvian] thrushes
Erythrofrontalidae or Erythrofrontalinae = Kitt-Robin

[Nova Sodor]

Bears ArmedApr 29 2016, 08:46:07 PMNova SodorApr 15 2016, 11:19:04 AMCrikey - that's what you call a comprehensive listing!

This feels like a poor second to Bear's offering but I see the flora and fauna of Nova Sodor as being similar to those that can be found on the Channel Islands so quite exotic but hardy at the same time in order to deal with the somewhat chilly winters that we experience at lower elevations (higher elevations will expericnce snow and colder conditions most winters).
[/quote]So basically a 'Western Europe' fauna & flora, but with a few 'Southern Europe' details added, although in some cases you might have IDU-endemic species rather than their RL counterparts?

:Bear: [/quote]This sounds like exactly what I was after.

Have some IDU species in as well would be great as it would help Nova Sodor blend in with the mainland.

Thanks Bears!