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Regional Security Act - Printable Version +- IDU Regional Forum (https://idugov.com/forum) +-- Forum: Futility Closet (https://idugov.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=102) +--- Forum: Filing Cabinet (https://idugov.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=41) +---- Forum: States Assembly House (https://idugov.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=19) +---- Thread: Regional Security Act (/showthread.php?tid=1958) Pages:
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Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-13-2019 Quote: Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-13-2019 For the most part we have at least some regulation regarding pretty much every faculty of The IDU. The only body of users that is not currently regulated is Executive Power group (Anyone with the ability to eject/ban/etc. other users from the region). I think that it is against the spirit of democracy and what this region stands for to not have any sort of guidelines or rules in place for how the executive actions are carried out. Thus this legislation was born. In all likelihood, should it pass, it will be amended in the future to add more potential regulations as situations/circumstances may dictate. That is fine with me. However, I believe that all of the essentials are present in this bill (please, correct me if I am wrong). For you all, the nations of the IDUSA, to consider: The Regional Security Act. Re: Regional Security Act - Sanctaria - 08-13-2019 You can't pass legislation to control the Founder nation. Re: Regional Security Act - Gonhog - 08-13-2019 As stated in Discord, that rule was established in 2004. Perhaps there should be a new discussion on it? Re: Regional Security Act - United New England - 08-13-2019 Gonhog post_id=19687 time=1565717294 user_id=591 Wrote:As stated in Discord, that rule was established in 2004. Perhaps there should be a new discussion on it? Plus, as stated on the Discord, that “rule” came from a discussion and not an official document. Perhaps LOM’s proposed legislation needs editing, but I support the idea of creating a clear policy regarding Founder privileges. I also want to say that I appreciate the hard work that LOM has put into this document. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-13-2019 Also, the rule is sort of ridiculous. No offense to whoever created it. The rule effectively means the Founder users are completely untouchable. They aren't elected. They have no check on their power (aside from each other but then you basically have the IC Kerlian government). They aren't beholden to the legislative body. They can basically do whatever they want without consequence. That doesn't really scream democratic to me. I think that legislation should absolutely be able to effect founders. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-13-2019 However, I see what you are saying, it can't practically effect founders because the nation is tied in to multiple users. I will try to figure out what to do about that and in the mean time clear up any ambiguous clauses. Re: Regional Security Act - Zamastan - 08-14-2019 I would second UNE's statement. I do believe that founder privileges should be limited in order to maintain the semblance of democracy. It doesn't have to be dramatic per say, though there should be some sort of restrain as there is in any political office. However, some of the wording in the proposed legislation can be broadly interpreted, and I think there should be more specific guidelines than what we currently have. I propose we should work together as the IDUSA body to determine what specifically needs to be further defined - possibly creating more subsections would help to expand clarifications? Just an idea. This would be a beneficial bill for the entire region if it's done properly. Other than that, I do appreciate and acknowledge the drafting. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Re: Regional Security Act - Sanctaria - 08-14-2019 Founder privileges cannot be limited due to game mechanics. They're there and no legislation passed by IDUSA can change that. Re: Regional Security Act - Zamastan - 08-14-2019 Sanctaria post_id=19694 time=1565758800 user_id=259 Wrote:Founder privileges cannot be limited due to game mechanics. They're there and no legislation passed by IDUSA can change that. Well, yes, I understand that. I might've not made myself clear in my post, I apologize. But there could be a way that we work some rule into legislation that a founder is able to abide by. Like I said, it wouldn't be incredibly limiting, but I think it would be beneficial. Otherwise, the fact that the founders are basically untouchable under the game mechanics could potentially become a bad thing for our region in the sense of their ability to limit democratic processes. Yes, I understand that they technically cannot be limited via the games rules itself, but I still think this would be a good piece of legislation to work on further. If not for the upright legitimacy, at least for the symbolism of it. Re: Regional Security Act - Sanctaria - 08-14-2019 Zamastan post_id=19695 time=1565759619 user_id=500 Wrote:Sanctaria post_id=19694 time=1565758800 user_id=259 Wrote:Founder privileges cannot be limited due to game mechanics. They're there and no legislation passed by IDUSA can change that. The Founder nation has had Bears, Grosse, Scion, and myself able to access it since 2013. Longer for Bears and Grosse! We're not giving anyone else access. I don't understand why we suddenly think that the Founders are going to interfere in democratic processes when they haven't thus far. Especially when 3 of the 4 are members of the actual game's staff and any interference in stuff like this would ruin our credibility (and we'd likely get in much serious trouble than this region alone could ever). As I explained on Discord also, because of the way the backend is set up, if one of the founders did something you didn't like, there's no way of knowing which founder it was. And as I also said, this option of kicking and banning and suppressing speech is currently not just restricted to Founders - all members of cabinet have the Border Control powers, and a few have the Communications power. So I don't understand why we're worried about the Founders - four people who have served in this region for about a decade now, at least, each - and not about the regional officers. Re: Regional Security Act - Zamastan - 08-14-2019 Sanctaria post_id=19696 time=1565760053 user_id=259 Wrote:The Founder nation has had Bears, Grosse, Scion, and myself able to access it since 2013. Longer for Bears and Grosse! We're not giving anyone else access. I don't understand why we suddenly think that the Founders are going to interfere in democratic processes when they haven't thus far. Especially when 3 of the 4 are members of the actual game's staff and any interference in stuff like this would ruin our credibility (and we'd likely get in much serious trouble than this region alone could ever). All very fair and accurate points - I hadn't considered or was fully aware of some of those realities (still in recovery so I hadn't seen some of the conversation on the discord). Thanks for clarifying, sorry for the confusion. Re: Regional Security Act - United New England - 08-14-2019 Sanctaria post_id=19696 time=1565760053 user_id=259 Wrote:Zamastan post_id=19695 time=1565759619 user_id=500 Wrote:Well, yes, I understand that. I might've not made myself clear in my post, I apologize. But there could be a way that we work some rule into legislation that a founder is able to abide by. Like I said, it wouldn't be incredibly limiting, but I think it would be beneficial. Otherwise, the fact that the founders are basically untouchable under the game mechanics could potentially become a bad thing for our region in the sense of their ability to limit democratic processes. Yes, I understand that they technically cannot be limited via the games rules itself, but I still think this would be a good piece of legislation to work on further. If not for the upright legitimacy, at least for the symbolism of it. In my opinion, it would be nice to edit this legislation in order to regulate the powers of the regional officers as well. However, I don’t see why we couldn’t make an IDU policy regarding the Founder account that adds to the restrictions of the game mechanics instead of contradicting them. We already have other IDU regulations on top of the game rules. As for determining which person with Founder privileges committed an unfair action in a theoretical situation, we might be able to call upon the game administrators for help in telling who was logged in at a given time. Re: Regional Security Act - Sanctaria - 08-14-2019 The Game Mods won't give out that kind of information for two reasons. 1) They don't like to get involved in regional issues - they only get involved if there is site rule breaking, which unfortunately couping/misuse of regional officer powers is not. 2) They won't confirm or deny information like that because it's personal identifiable information (PII) and they can't give information like that out to third parties without breaking the law. I think LOM should focus this more on preventing anyone with Border Control powers or Communications powers (so any regional officer) from acting in a way they shouldn't. Up until now the Founders have done a good job of keeping track/tabs on each other, and I see no reason why that should not continue. If you want more oversight on who does what with the Founder, maybe put in a clause requesting that when a Founder nation does something with the Founder, they makes a post on the RMB and sign off with the nation that they are - but honestly that is really the only thing that can be done realistically. Re: Regional Security Act - United New England - 08-14-2019 Sanctaria post_id=19702 time=1565788818 user_id=259 Wrote:The Game Mods won't give out that kind of information for two reasons. Sounds good to me. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-15-2019 Sanctaria post_id=19702 time=1565788818 user_id=259 Wrote:If you want more oversight on who does what with the Founder, maybe put in a clause requesting that when a Founder nation does something with the Founder, they makes a post on the RMB and sign off with the nation that they are - but honestly that is really the only thing that can be done realistically. Yeah, that is probably all it takes. I will attempt to fix it up so that regional admins, not just founder users, are effected. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-15-2019 Ok, Proposal Updated. The proposal now explicitly states that the regulations put in place by this bylaw would be applied to all nations with eject/ban/suppress privileges, not just the founder access nations. The proposal now includes a clause requiring founder nation access users to disclose their user identity when nominating (which is the wrong word. It is a placeholder for now) a user for ejection The proposal now also allows the appeals to take place on the forums or in the discord, circumventing the spam concern with appeals. Re: Regional Security Act - Zamastan - 08-15-2019 I like those amendments so far! I'd like to see what other IDUSA members who haven't given their opinions yet think of it. Re: Regional Security Act - Sanctaria - 08-15-2019 [box]2. No regional officer may be ejected or removed from position without an IDU Judiciary Committee hearing[/box] As it's currently written, a Delegate would have to get an IDU Judiciary Committee hearing to fire a cabinet member. I don't think that's either fair or realistic - the Delegate should be able to choose his/her team, and remove members if necessary, without due hindrance. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-15-2019 I could alter it to just extend to elected positions. Cabinet positions would be exempt from this. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-16-2019 Sanctaria post_id=19725 time=1565898677 user_id=259 Wrote:[box]2. No regional officer may be ejected or removed from position without an IDU Judiciary Committee hearing[/box] I addressed you concern and fixed a grammatical error. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-19-2019 Any Last Comments? Re: Regional Security Act - Lauchenoiria - 08-19-2019 Quote:§2 Ejections of Regional Officials You define "elected official", but the subsequent clause does not use that wording, it uses "regional officer" which is not defined in the legislation and thus still has the problem where a delegate cannot remove an officer from their post without a judiciary committee hearing. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 08-19-2019 Lauchenoiria post_id=19773 time=1566238696 user_id=461 Wrote:Quote:§2 Ejections of Regional Officials Done. Re: Regional Security Act - Libertas Omnium Maximus - 09-04-2019 Last Call. If nothing is brought up, can I have a seconder? |