FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Printable Version
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FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 02-28-2007
Quote: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions"
A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution
Category: Repeal
Resolution: #149
Proposed by: David6
Description: UN Resolution #149: The Right to Form Unions (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.
Argument: ASSERTING the rights of workers to form unions and the importance of fair wages,
APPLAUDING the honorable intention of UN Resolution #149 "The Right to Form Unions" to provide protection for all workers in member nations,
HOWEVER REGRETTING that this resolution, through a series of abysmal legislative flaws, creates a system that neither appropriately protects workers nor strikes a proper balance between worker protection and national security, namely in that it:
1- GRANTS blanket permission for all strikes that are severely hazardous to health and safety, law and order, and public well being, or that indirectly endanger civilian lives;
2- FAILS to enact a minimum threshold for union membership or set limitations on multiple membership, thereby effectively legalizing all wildcat strikes;
3- FORCES member nations to provide 'independent arbitration' with the unlimited power to control the actions of union workers and employers in all cases in which strikes are prohibited without any assurance of the non-bias of these groups, thus implementing on an international scale a bias-prone system for an issue that could be better managed, due to the complexity of union-employer relations, on a national scale;
4- PERMITS all military personnel to engage in industrial action, such as work-slow and work-to-rule, and further to join violent international federations, which clearly represents a critical threat to national security;
5- DENIES member nations the necessary ability to temporarily suspend or modify the right of emergency services personnel to engage in industrial action in order to promote security and continuity of operations during times of severe unrest, disruption, or war;
THEREFORE CONCLUDING that the resolution in question not only provides a mandate for dangerous and irresponsible activities, but further that it in no way guarantees the fair and just protections of union workers,
NOTING that the repeal of this flawed legislation shall not require the disbanding of national or international unions, but will instead empower nations to prevent the abuses herein mentioned,
REPEALS United Nations Resolution #149 "The Right to Form Unions".
Authored by the members of ACCEL
Voting Ends: Mon Mar 5 2007
[/quote]
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 02-28-2007
This is a historic resolution in a very bad way.
It's the first time I can recall a resolution with IDU sponsorship has made the queue for repeal.
I wonder if Groot is aware of this; while he is back, I don't know if he knew this had made quorum at the NSUN.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Antrium - 02-28-2007
AGAINST a whole lot.
We can't let an IDU resolution be repealed. And I liked that resolution anyway, I wouldn't have voted for this even if Groot was in another region.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Gnejs - 02-28-2007
Never! So AGAINST as possible.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Federalist - 02-28-2007
I think that the repeal authors have made several very valid points. Perhaps we should consider writing a replacment that corrects some of these flaws.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 02-28-2007
Oddly enough, this resolution was a replacement for an earlier resollution that was repealed.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Saidercray - 02-28-2007
AGAINST
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Eisophca - 03-01-2007
Could some of the supporters of the original resolution present some arguments against the repeal, if they are up to it? I'm undecided on this one, and am wondering if anyone more informed in this subject had any counterarguments to present.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Gnejs - 03-01-2007
Quote: THEREFORE CONCLUDING that the resolution in question not only provides a mandate for dangerous and irresponsible activities, but further that it in no way guarantees the fair and just protections of union workers,[/quote]
I just don't see that in the original resolution text. I find it does aim for, and achives a fair and just protection of workers. As for the dangerous and irresponsible activites, all I see is the right to go on strike...
Linda Anaris
UN-Office
GPRG
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Groot Gouda - 03-01-2007
Against, obviously.
The original resolution gives workers the right to join and form unions. There are several exceptions to protect the general wellbeing of a state.
If you think workers should be given the right to organize themselves to ensure they get paid fairly in proper working conditions, you should be against this repeal.
In fact, it being an IDU resolutions, you should simply be against this repeal.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Federalist - 03-01-2007
Are you trying to imply something Groot?
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 03-01-2007
Goos news (so far) -- with about 2,200 votes cast, the against repeal side leads by about 250 votes, or ten percent (roughly 55% to 45%.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Yeldan IDU Territory - 03-01-2007
AGAINST
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Groot Gouda - 03-02-2007
pagemasterMar 1 2007, 06:49 PM Are you trying to imply something Groot? [/quote]
I'm always implying something
Generally, resolution that come from the IDU are sensible, broad and proper resolutions in all. I've supported IDU resolutions without properly reading them and will continue to do so, I've never been disappointed.
And this is a good resolution. It gives a right, restricts it for the purpose of broad acceptance and pragmatism (the exemption clause), and leaves the rest to individual nations. The way the repeal author is misrepresenting this resolution is objectionable.
And I'm simply pissed off that someone's trying to repeal one of my resolutions. I mean, I wanted to come back quietly and just go along for a bit, only spending time when I had it, and now I have to defend the resolution again. Bugger.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Federalist - 03-02-2007
Just because a resolution is written by the IDU doesn't mean that its perfect or cover everything that it should. If someone spots a potential flaw in one of our resolutions then we should simply rewrite it to correct the mistake. Every attempt to repeal something doesn't indicate a conspiracy towards the IDU.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 03-02-2007
Pagemaster, the resolutions that have come out of the IDU's member tend to be well written and well-vetted.
"The Right To Form Labor Union" also havs the rare distinction of being one of the first replacement resolutions ever adopted in the NSUN. So it also had the benefit of responding to the flaw of the earlier resolution on labor unions that was repealed. I would also point out that many of the series of repeal resolutions we have seen have been part of the effort of a bloc to repeal almost everything that they can come up with, no matter how far fetched the grounds of certain repeals have been.
This is why I have become deeply susicious of repeals because the process doesn't seem to be used any longer to repeal resolutions that might need amendment or updating, but instead are part of a political agenda.
Quote: Votes For: 1,703
Votes Against: 2,241[/quote]
With about 4,000 votes cast, the opponents now have a 540 vote margin,which is now better than the 55-45 percent advantage earlier today.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Eisophca - 03-02-2007
You can't just say that "IDU resolutions are good" and leave it at that. Would anyone like to explain how the author is misrepresenting the resolution?
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Mikitivity - 03-02-2007
Long week, no time to restate my reasons for supporting the resolution being repealed ... instead I will state that my reasons to support the original resolution have been posted on the UN forum in the past and remain the same. We FIRMLY are opposed to the repeal and regret that we've been so occupied as to not play a greater role in the region and the UN.
(I will make a similar statement in the UN.)
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 03-02-2007
I'm going to post Groot's response to this in the official discussion thread at Jolt:
Quote: I would like to urge everybody to vote against this repeal. It will be a blow for worker's rights, and as we all know unhappy workers are bad for production and bad for the economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David6
1- GRANTS blanket permission for all strikes that are severely hazardous to health and safety, law and order, and public well being, or that indirectly endanger civilian lives;[/quote]
The resolution clearly states:
3. EXEMPTS from the right granted in clause 2:
a. Strikes by personnel of the armed forces;
b. Strikes not authorized by a union;
c. Strikes which directly endanger the life of citizens in a nation, such as but not limited to medical and police personnel;
You may be of the opinion that a strike should not convey any threat. That is what I gather from this point. By doing that you effectively say that a strike should be toothless, so that workers have nothing to fall back to if their employer exploits them.
Quote:
2- FAILS to enact a minimum threshold for union membership or set limitations on multiple membership, thereby effectively legalizing all wildcat strikes;
You can make laws about that, as long as they do not interfere with the right of people to form or join unions.[/quote]
Or you could create proper laws protecting workers, so they don't need to form or join unions. Up to you. Don't you love the freedom the UN gives you?
Quote:
3- FORCES member nations to provide 'independent arbitration' with the unlimited power to control the actions of union workers and employers in all cases in which strikes are prohibited without any assurance of the non-bias of these groups[/quote]
It says independent. That means it should not have any bias towards any particular side.
If you fear that that means your firefighters will be able to get a fair pay for a fair day's work without having to go on strike endangering lives, you are right.
Quote:
4- PERMITS all military personnel to engage in industrial action, such as work-slow and work-to-rule, and further to join violent international federations, which clearly represents a critical threat to national security;[/quote]
Oh please, you can't be serious or you are a poor reader. Millitairy personnel is exempted from the right to strike. Other actions are not mentioned. If your armed forces are threatening national security, you have a problem with your armed forced - not with unions. They will find other ways to overthrow your government.
Quote: THEREFORE CONCLUDING that the resolution in question not only provides a mandate for dangerous and irresponsible activities,[/quote]
activities which your people are apparently prone to; as if being able to come up for their rights suddenly makes everybody a terrorist.
Quote:
but further that it in no way guarantees the fair and just protections of union workers,[/quote]
Again, you read the resolution poorly. It clearly gives people the right to join or form a union, enabling them to protect their rights as workers against employers, who generally are in a more powerfull position. You need balance. That's what the resolution gave.
Quote:
NOTING that the repeal of this flawed legislation shall not require the disbanding of national or international unions, but will instead empower nations to prevent the abuses herein mentioned,[/quote]
No, repealing will mean that in the nations where the granted rights are needed the most, will be no longer in place.
Vote against, in the interest of your people and your economy.
[/quote]
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Federalist - 03-02-2007
So Gross you're telling me that IDU resolutions are perfectly written and incapable of being flawed in any way, shape or form?
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Gnejs - 03-02-2007
I agree that an IDU resolution doesn't automaticly have to be great and fantastic, but I do believe the original resolution in question to be so.
Quote: Would anyone like to explain how the author is misrepresenting the resolution? [/quote]
I think Groot himself did a terrific job in the Jolt thread.
Quote: NOTING that the repeal of this flawed legislation shall not require the disbanding of national or international unions, but will instead empower nations to prevent the abuses herein mentioned[/quote]
I would rather have the current resolution in place, and keeping the right to form unions a mandatory one for all UN-nations.
Linda Anaris
UN-Office
GPRG
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Grosseschnauzer - 03-02-2007
Pagemaster, you asked why one should oppose this repeal, and since Groot noted he hadn't time to repeat what he said at Jolt, I went over there and brought his response to this rrepeal proposal here.
There's no question in my mid that the sponsor of the repela played fast-and-loose with the trut; that alone is a reason not to support the repeal.
And from reading through the Jolt thread, I get the impression that others did not care for the way the author of the repeal played fast and loose with the facts, as well as the apparent political motive of a group that is seeking wholesale repeals of resolutions with whatever cooked up reasons they can concoct as part of a broader agenda of their own (even the tactic of not having replacement resolutions in place.
In other words, this is another one of *those* repeals that have been comeing along for the last several months. That too, is a reason, to vote against the repeal.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Groot Gouda - 03-02-2007
pagemasterMar 2 2007, 04:00 AM Just because a resolution is written by the IDU doesn't mean that its perfect or cover everything that it should. If someone spots a potential flaw in one of our resolutions then we should simply rewrite it to correct the mistake. Every attempt to repeal something doesn't indicate a conspiracy towards the IDU. [/quote]
No, but I expect IDU proposals to have the flaws removed before it goes up for vote.
This resolution is not flawed, and the repeal author is using false arguments to have it repealed. Simply reading the resolution makes that clear. Even some radical NatSov nations have stated that.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Stolidia - 03-02-2007
My UN nation, Ausserland, is strongly opposed to this repeal, on the grounds that it misrepresents the provisions of the original resolution and makes completely spurious arguments. Since some IDU members are asking for specifics on this, I'll try to explain....
The repeal states that #149 "PERMITS all military personnel to engage in industrial action, such as work-slow and work-to-rule...." It does not. The resolution exempts military unions from the right to strike. Other industrial actions are not covered at all by the resolution, so nations are free to make whatever law they find necessary in this regard.
The repeal states that #149 "...provides a mandate for dangerous and irresponsible activities...." It does not. The author of the repeal doesn't seem to know what the word "mandate" means. There is no such mandate in the resolution.
The repeal states that arbitration is "a bias-prone system". Arbitration is a tried-and-true method of resolving labor disputes. It may be affected by bias, as may any other such system, but to label it as "bias-prone" is absurd.
The repeal states that the provisions on military unions "clearly represents a critical threat to national security". That is also absurd. The resolution does not prevent nations from enacting laws covering the actions of military personnel that would ensure the national security is not endangered. (An aside from RL.... This comes from a former Army officer who commanded troops in Vietnam and worked for almost three decades in in the national security bureaucracy.
)The repeal states that #149 "GRANTS blanket permission for all strikes that are severely hazardous to health and safety, law and order, and public well being". Again, a gross misstatement of the resolution's provisions. Strikes which "directly endanger" lives of citizens are exempted from the right to strike. While I believe this exemption is too narrow, it does exist.
Hope that helps some.
FAILED: Repeal "The Right to Form Unions" - Eisophca - 03-03-2007
Thanks very much GS, Groot, and Auss. Eisophca now opposes the repeal.