United New England post_id=20215 time=1571112610 user_id=581 Wrote:These ideas look great! I appreciate your extensive efforts.

Thanks in particular for catering your suggestions to my preferences, such as with the bears and the colorful birds.

Are both the light and dark pardopumas referred to as “blond”? That seems confusing.

As for the chalicothere, I think the New Englanders might wind up calling it the Sasquatch Horse.

Bears Armed post_id=20223 time=1571158966 user_id=124 Wrote:

United New England post_id=20215 time=1571112610 user_id=581 Wrote:Are both the light and dark pardopumas referred to as “blond”? That seems confusing.

As for the chalicothere, I think the New Englanders might wind up calling it the Sasquatch Horse.

Re the Pardopumas _
No, it’s only the ‘flavistic’ individuals that are so-called: I have now replaced the word “these” at the relevant part of their descrion with “the latter”, which hopefully clarifies it adequately.

Re the Chalicothere _
Noted. I have added this detail to its entry above.


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I have now added the nation’s [suggested] Antelopes to the section about the family Bovidae. Feel free to have your people give them (or any other species, of course) English names different from the ones that I’ve suggested.

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Coming soon (planned): Deer, Monkeys, Giant Squirrel… and a post, in the ‘Basic Presumptions and Overview’ thread, rather than in this one, that uses this nation’s varied assortment of Ungulate species as an example to illustrate the concept of ‘niche partitioning’ that I’ve already mentioned there.

United New England post_id=20225 time=1571170351 user_id=581 Wrote:I’m still confused by this part: “They include some ‘melanistic’ (i.e. darker-furred) individuals that may be called ‘Blonde Pumas’ or ‘Blonde Panthers’”.

I like the idea of the quadricorns!

Bears Armed post_id=20227 time=1571226107 user_id=124 Wrote:Oops! I see now what you meant about the ‘Blonde Panthers’… Fixed.
Glad that you like the Quadricorns.

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Red Dog: details of their preferred prey added.
Deer: names and brief descriptions for the five native species have been added.
Rodents: the notes about Porcupines have been expanded, with two more species added, and some brief notes about Squirrels (including a ‘Giant Squirrel’) have been added.
I have now posted some suggestions about possibilities in the Mammals: Marsupials and “primitive” types section.
Osprey added (but without its full scientific name, until I can find this in my old notes) among the ‘Non-Passeriform Birds’.

United New England post_id=20232 time=1571270075 user_id=581 Wrote:

Bears Armed post_id=20199 time=1571073587 user_id=124 Wrote:Mammals: Marsupials and “primitive” types

Metatheria: Marsupialia

1.) Order = Boreodidelphiformes.
The name of this order means “Northern opossum-shaped (animals)”, and is derived from the name of one of its member families — the ‘Boreodidelphidae’ — for whose various species it is a simple but accurate description (and which is derived in turn from the name of its main genus, ‘Boreodidelphis’). It is endemic to the IDU nowadays, but two families of opossum-like marsupials that survived in RL Earth’s Eurasia and North America until as recently as the Miocene epoch (over halfway from the end of the “Age of Dinosaurs” to the present day…) might also belong alongside its Iduvian groups. The following families COULD have members native to this nation:

Notodidelphidae
The name of this family means “Southern Opossums”, and is derived from the name of its main genus ‘Notodidelphis’. It is this continent’s endemic counterpart of the north’s ‘Boreodidelphidae’. Its members are mainly of the “basic” opossum type, (unless you want to suggest any ‘plausible’ variations], and can be found in a wide range of habitats. Most if not all of them can climb quite well, and [at least] some species have prehensile tails to help with this.

Arborididelphidae
This family is also endemic to this continent, and is a sister-group to the one described just above. Its name means “Tree Opossums”, and all of its species are highly arboreal in lifestyle: They all possess prehensile tails, which in [at least] some species are strong enough to support their full weights for quite some time without any problems. Although most common in rain-forests and ‘tropical evergreen’ forest they may also be found in ‘tropical seasonal’ forest (where they might sleep, in holes in trees, through the “dry season”) too.

Pterodidelphidae
This is a family of “flying” opossums, which glide using flaps of skin that stretch between their limbs & body (‘patagia’ is the technical term) like RL Australia’s ‘Flying Phalangers’ and ‘Sugar Glider’. They are a sister-group to the northern continent’s family of ‘Tree Opossums’, with these two families together forming one of this order’s two currently-recognized suborders (the other of which contains the two families described above and four more — including the ‘Boreodidelphidae’ — that are endemic to the northern continent instead). Its subfamily ‘Pterodidelphinae’ contains two tribes, both of which are also endemic to the northern continent, but members of the subfamily ‘Notopterinae’ could be found in this nation. The tribe ‘Notopterini’ (which is endemic to this continent) contains omnivorous or insectivorous species, which could occur in any reasonably well-wooded habitat, while the tribe ‘Melissapterini’ (which probably originated on this continent, but can now also be found in some lands near its neighbour’s south-eastern corner as well) are nectar-feeding specialists like the RL ‘Sugar Gliders’ and would be restricted to rainforest or ‘tropical evergeeen’ forest.


2.) From the order Formicitheria, whose name means “Ant-beasts” and refers to their diet, and which is endemic to the IDU, the following families COULD have members native to this nation:

Formicitheriidae
This family’s members are all ant-eaters, and have evolved “the usual” adaptations for that role: A long snout housing a long & sticky tongue, closable nostrils, and powerful claws on their forepaws for opening the nest of ants & termites. They are all tree-dwellers, feeding only on ants & termites whose nests are also up in the trees, and have prehensile tails to help them with this lifestyle. Look at RL South America’s (non-Marsupial) ‘Tamandua’ & ‘Silky Anteater’ to get a general idea of their general form & lifestyle. There could be one or more species (differing from each other in size, preferred diet, preferred altitude, or whatever…) living in this nation’s rainforests, and possibly also — although this might be less likely — in the ‘tropical evergreen’ forests along the west coast.


3.) From the order Quadriprotodonta, whose name means “(Animals with) Four front teeth” and refers to the fact that unlike the herbivorous marsupials of RL Australia they have four rather than just two sets of incisors, the following family COULD have members native to this nation:

Tardiscansoridae
This family’s name means “Slow Climbers” (No, nothing at all to do with Doctor Who…), and its members are basically marsupial equivalents of RL South America’s tree-dwelling Sloths. They are found in parts of the other continent’s south-eastern corner, as well as on this one. There could be one or more species living in this nation’s rainforests, and maybe another one in the ‘tropical evergreen’ forests along the west coast. My suggested English name for them is ‘Slowths’.

“Menthascansoride” ?
(My name for this family is not yet finalised...)
This family, which is endemic to this continent alone, is a sister-group to the family described above. Its members feed solely on the leaves of trees from the ‘Mint-tree’ family, which is endemic to this continent. As those trees are found only in seasonal and “dry” forests these animals sometimes have to walk across the ground between trees and consequently have not become [quite] as slow or clumsy as their jungle-living relatives. The trees protect themselves from insects and other herbivores by secreting a rather ‘mint’-like substance which most of those potential threats find nauseous even though it isn’t actually toxic to all of them, but this particular family’s members have evolved a greater tolerance of it and even concentrate it in their own tissues to deter predators! Obviously if you have these animals then you must have the trees as well…
I don’t yet have an English name for these animals.
(I still need to decide for certain about this family’s names and its members’ appearance, but they’re probably quite similar in size & general form — as well as in lifestyle — to RL Australia’s ’Koala’. I got the ‘Mint-trees’ idea from the facts that (a) I needed something rather like the Eucalyptus on which Koalas feed to explain why these animals haven’t been out-competed by rodents or primates or other ‘placental mammals; and (b) Mint and eucalyptus are combined in some RL cough sweets. ^_^ )

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Metatheria: Deltatheroida
(This group formerly existed in RL, too, but seems to have become extinct there around — or at — the time of the ‘K-Pg Event’ that killed-off the [“non-Avian”] Dinosaurs, Pterosaurs, Mosasaurs, Plesiosaurs, and various other groups as well.

4.) From the order Deltatherida, whose name refers to the triangular shape of their premolar & molar teeth (which are basically specialised for carnivorous diets), the following families — both of which are endemic to this continent, and never existed on RL Earth — COULD have members native to this nation:


Deltasoricoididae
These are basically ‘Marsupial Shrews’, feeding on invertebrates at ground level. “Real” shrews are a fairly new arrival on this continent, and might not yet have expanded this far... or, at least, might not yet have displaced these rivals from some of the habitats (with ‘Tropical Rainforest’ being the most likely exception) here.


Deltadesmanidae
These are larger on average than members of the family described above (smallest = ‘water shrew’-sized, largest = ‘duck-billed platypus-sized’, more or less…), and hunt in freshwater (from mountain streams to the quieter sections of lowland rivers, and in lakes as well) although they are rare in the lowland tropical rainforest’s waters because those contain too many potential threats to their lives.


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Eusymmetrodonta

5.) From the order Spalacotheriida, which formerly existed in RL as well but also seems to have become extinct there around — or at — the time of the ‘K-Pg Event’ (unless one species currently only known from a single fossil that dates to the following Palaeocene epoch belonged to it, which is quite likely but not yet considered definite…), the following IDU-endemic family COULD have members native to this nation:

Pseudotalpidae

‘False Moles’, filling ecological niches comparable to RL’s “real” Moles (and perhaps also, if wide enough areas of sandy soil exist around here, the roles filled by ‘Golden Moles’ in RL Africa and ‘Marsupial Moles’ in RL Australia) which have not yet reached this continent. My suggested [shorter] English name for them is ‘Noles’, as a contraction of “not really Moles”.
I’ve already posted something about them in this forum a while back (https://theidu.us/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17925#p17925), and that material only needs a few minor changes to fit my current thoughts on the matter.

I would be fine with any of these animals. Thanks!

Bears Armed post_id=20238 time=1571331723 user_id=124 Wrote:

United New England post_id=20232 time=1571270075 user_id=581 Wrote:I would be fine with any of these animals. Thanks!

Noted, and I've modified that post to say that all of those families - -with the 'Mint-Trees' too, of course, because they're needed as food for the "Koala-like" marsupials -- do have species present here.

Also
Minor changes made in several entries to clarify points about relationships, degree of endemicism, or diet.
In the section about the order Carnivora, suggestions made about possible other members of the family Mustelidae.
The brief notes about ""Primates and Plesiadapiformes" have been replaced by more detailed ones under the new heading of "Mammals: Primatomorpha".
A few suggestions made in the sections about 'Reptiles', 'Gymnosperms', and 'Other Land Plants'.

Bears Armed post_id=20240 time=1571404875 user_id=124 Wrote:Note that the western side of your nation should have a ‘dry season’ & ‘wet season’ (whose effects on the inland forest I have already mentioned in one or two places…), but that due to the different pattern of lands & seas these should be less extreme than those in RL experienced by [e.g.] India (i.e. the ‘Monsoons’). I have now added this explanation to the 'Location' section in the first post.
Also in that post, but in its 'Basic Ecotypes' section instead, I have improved the definition given for 'cloud forest'.

I have now added suggestions for three more families of Mammals, two from the order Lagomorpha (i.e. rabbits & hares, and their relatives) and the other — listed here in the ’Other Eutheria’ section — from an order called the Anaglida that formerly existed on RL Earth as well but became extinct in that Reality quite early on in the “Age of Mammals”.

Various short suggestions have been added to the sections about Insects and about Plants.

Re my previous suggestion that the ‘Gymnosperm’ plants present should include a group that had become extinct in RL, so that this could continue supporting ‘Kalligrammatidae’ insects: I made this suggestion because explaining the continued existence of those insects seemed easiest if we gave their adults a food plant for which other insects could not compete because of poisons to which the Kalligrammatids — having started feeding on those plants earlier, before the poisons were evolved to their current strength — had managed to evolve resistance. Thinking further about this, though, we don’t actually need those extinct-in-RL trees for this purpose: We have already agreed to use the ‘Mint-Trees’, whose secretions are toxic or at least repellent to many insects, so having the Kalligrammatids feed on (and pollinate) these would work quite nicely anyway. I’m provisionally assigning the Mint-Trees’ family to the order Lauralaes, some of whose other members (such as ‘Laurel’ itself, of course) also use chemical defences, and that has been around since quite early in the Cretaceous period so there would have been enough overlap in time between these two groups before the food-sources relied on by RL Kalligrammatids became extinct for such a relationship to have developed…

United New England post_id=20244 time=1571604861 user_id=581 Wrote:These suggestions look good!

Bears Armed post_id=20246 time=1571678668 user_id=124 Wrote:

United New England post_id=20244 time=1571604861 user_id=581 Wrote:These suggestions look good!

I’m glad that you liked them!
Those non-RL families have been on my lists for several years, so it was nice to get a chance to see them “in place”.
I only found out about the Kalligrammatidae a few months ago, but they seemed like a nice idea too.

I have just added suggestions for four more species of small Carnivorans, three of them in the family Mustelidae and the other in the Notovenatoridae, with the label (SUGGESTED) above each of those.
If the ‘Austral Badger’ is acceptable then its presence would bring the number of [non-Cetacean] Mammal genera that your lands here share with RL Earth up to an “amazing” total of five! The others are Panthera (the Lion and Tiger here, which are the only two species of non-Cetacean Mammal that your lands share — although, even so, with separation at the subspecies level — with RL Earth; three more species also exist in RL, and at least two of those have reached some parts of the IDU as well, but none of those have reached your lands), Cuon (the Red Dog, or Dhole), Ursus (the Bears, two species here one in each of the subgenera ‘(Ursus)’ and ‘(Melursus)’; both of those groups also have other [different] members elsewhere, although certain species that belong to the genus overall are sometimes not assigned to either of them), and Sus (the “main” genus of Pigs).

Some other possible points to consider, at least in the medium term:
Given your people’s arrival in spaceships, is it reasonably safe to presume that they didn’t accidentally bring house mice, black rats, or brown rats, along with them? Are they bringing any domesticated cats or dogs, and if so then are they taking any precautions against the possible establishment of feral populations from either or both those of species? Are they introducing domestic livestock? Have they brought along pets of any other species? What crops or other plants are they going to try growing? Etc…

:bear:

United New England post_id=20265 time=1572124578 user_id=581 Wrote:I approve of your new suggestions. The red label is very useful for navigation!

I would say that the New Englanders did not accidentally bring mice or rats on their spaceships. However, they did bring cats and dogs, which are usually spayed or neutered, along with smaller pets such as rabbits, hamsters, guinea pigs, and gerbils. Common livestock animals would include cows, pigs, chickens, and turkeys. Horses, sheep, and goats were also brought over to live on farms.

What kinds of plants would grow well in this climate? New Englanders would want to see if they could grow bananas, pineapples, mangoes, or citrus fruits. Plants with distinctive flowers, such as jacarandas and plumerias, would also be of interest.

Bears Armed post_id=20271 time=1572276783 user_id=124 Wrote:Pets & livestock
Re the mice & rats, dogs & cats: that’s good to know.
Re the smaller pets: Okay, noted. Even the rabbits, if they got loose and weren’t eaten by anything, probably wouldn’t be able to take over ecological niches currently filled by native species.

Re the common livestock: I hope that they aren’t trying to bring this directly from “old” New England, because of the difference in conditions… Taking the time to acclimatise stock from there at some place with an intermediate climate, or even obtaining stock that was actually bred & raised in a tropical area back on the colonists’ world of origin (in Brazil, or north of that in South America, for example), would seem highly advisable.
Cattle from ‘tropical’ breeds probably “pay” for their ability to tolerate the heat with lower milk yields and tougher meat than you would expect from European & North American breeds.
Pigs: get dark-skinned breeds if you’re going to let them out-of-doors, because the paler-skinned ones can get seriously sunburned. Also, you might need to keep them a bit less plump than is now usual in temperate climes, in order to prevent overheating.
Chickens, no problem, they’ll do fine.
Turkeys, again, I suspect that modern domesticated breeds might be prone to over-heating in the local climates… Might your people consider Guinea-fowl as a possible alternative?
Horses, get stock from a suitable source and that’s fine… although, of course, this is another species that could potentially establish a large population in the wild if given the chance.
Sheep & Goats: Okay, but note that tropical breeds tend to have only ‘hair’ (which needs to be collected by relatively frequent combing) rather than heavier ‘wool’ (which can be removed as entire fleeces once a year). I think that, even in RL Australia, the sheep from which wool is obtained are raised further from the equator than this. Also, again, worry about the possible ecological consequences if goats manage to establish a feral population.

Crops
Bananas (and ‘plantains’, if you want them, too), pineapples, mangoes: should grow fine.
Citrus fruits: I’d need to do more research, but probably at least some.
Jacarandas: should be fine; and quick research indicates that they have multiple pollinating species in various parts of RL so their attracting one here as well should probably be easy enough.
Plumeria (Frangipani): should grow fine, but I’m not sure about insect pollination (quick research says ‘sphinx moths’, but I haven’t yet found out how species-limited this is…) so you might need to rely on other methods.

I’ve already mentioned the coconut palms in some coastal areas, and that there’s probably at least one area in the highlands where it would be worth trying Coffee. Also, whether or not any of the native species of Fig produce fruit worth your while, you could probably bring in one that’s already grown for this purpose somewhere in RL Earth’s tropics.
Some other crop-yielding trees that your people could consider introducing, depending on how much of the native forest they’re willing to replace, are avocado, cocoa, cashew-nut, kola nut, breadfruit, pepper, sago palm, oil palm, rubber, and the one that gives the traditional raw material for chewing-gum…
Some non-woody crops that your people could definitely consider: sweet potato, peppers (both ‘bell’ and ‘hot’), cassava/manioc, peanut/groundnut, certain types of gourds, and probably certain varieties of maize (as it is grown in RL Brazil). With enough labour and irrigation, possibly also rice, sugar-cane, cotton…
That’s just a quick list, from my memories of reading about the tropics, and you can probably find even more if you do some research yourself.

There are almost certainly some more native plants from which your people could obtain edible fruit or other useful products, too, but finding out which of the many species present are really suitable for this might take them a while (especially as it isn’t a point that I had previously considered myself…).

Another “biological” matter that the settlers might have to consider, of course, is the possible presence of native diseases or parasites which could spread to their crops, their livestock, or even themselves… Again, this isn’t a point that I had previously considered. However, I will guarantee the absence, unless you decide that you actually want to RP about their presence, of Malaria, Sleeping Sickness, Yellow Fever, and Ebola…
Your settlers are making sure that all of the pets & livestock they bring here aren’t carrying any diseases (that could spread to the native wildlife), right?


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Other matters

Is it okay with you if I specify that one section of the western plains, some way inland from the coast, floods temporarily during the rainy season to become a fairly wide marsh? This would offer us some more interesting ecological possibilities…

Is it okay with you if I make minor changes to the Gazelles already confirmed as present, add yet another species of them, and add another species of Antelope as well? If it is then should I use the (SUGGESTED) label for the new species, although not to highlight the other changes, or for the latter as well?

Also, although so far I have been using the labels “Mongoose” & “Civet” so far for various members of the continent’s endemic Carnivoran family the ‘Notovernatoridae’, those animals are obviously not “true” Mongooses & Civets. This being the case, I suggest (and think that some zoologists within the region IC would probably suggest, too) that we add alternative labels which could be used by characters who want to be more accurate (& less colloquial?). The ‘mongoose’ types are mostly diurnal and mostly terrestrial (although the ‘Sanglins’ are an exception in both respects..), whereas the ‘civet’ types are mostly nocturnal and more inclined to be arboreal: So, basically “Groundstalkers” (although with the Sanglins & their closest relatives being ‘Treestalkers’ instead) and “Nightprowlers” (although with the already-described ‘Austral Ground Civet’ being a “Groundprowler” instead), perhaps? Alternative suggestions?